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  • Artist Studio in New York

    Dear Forum Members:

    Currently I am working on an Art studio project.
    The client owns anL shape land with a colonial house on it and wanted a large painting studio. 40'x60' behind the house
    He is interested in large open space that could be built fast and on budget.

    I am planing to use a steel frame structure, because the area is colonial and the existing house we may need to clad the building with fiber cement siding.
    We also going to use radiant heat in the concrete slab and insulate the wall to get this building to be efficient. the client did not care much for naturals light.
    I am going to share some images of the project and keep updating when we get new info or start building.

    The prices of steel buildings look very promising but I am still not sure of how this process will unfold.

    I appreciate feed back.

    thanks.
    Khader
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  • #2
    more images for art studio

    view from road
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    • #3
      more shots
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      • #4
        Hi Khader.
        It doesn't look colonial. Colonial to me would mean a gabled barn.

        Much better a gabled barn too because you can use a lighter steel portal frame than than the one you've shown. A gabled portal means a span of 20 feet each of two beams instead of 40 feet for one beam as that one shown which has no portal bracing and the main beam looks too small for that span: general thumb rule for steel is 1" of depth for every 3' of span.

        You'll also have an easier cutting job all round for the cladding because the builder doesn't have to climb up 17 feet on the high side with long lengths of siding which would mean higher more expensive scaffolding where as with a gabled barn it's only the same short scaffolding all round and a ladder for short lengths on the high gable ends, which means a cheaper, safer build with less waste.

        Also consider placing your girts outside the steel frame posts rather than between the posts as it's way less steel cutting of girts and half the cleat fixings (which is a big saving on a shed that size), and you can get insulation between the cladding and the slab edge which is critical if your using in slab radiant heat, and completely hide the slab edge too. That is important not just because it would look more colonial, but because it will save on excavations because you can get much more of the slab above ground which in turn means you don't have to worry so much about snow building up on the outside and the join between the under slab insulation and the slab will be easier to keep dry.
        Last edited by simon seasons; 29-03-2012, 03:38.

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        • #5
          thanks for very good recomednations

          Hi Simon:

          The proposed building meant to be modern next to existing old house. the client just called me and he wants the building to have a steel shiny metal exterior! so i have to think of an appropriated material. (Any suggestions!!)

          Your framing suggestions make a lot of sense . the steel building will engineer the structure for me.

          I like your suggestion to protect he slab from snow. I have to work on that with engineers.

          I need to get R21 for wall insulation. i think we have plenty of wall thickness to do that

          note the sketch up image is my understanding of what the frame may look like. this will come pre-drilled from factory. and asmple of what theses steel buildings look like from inside.

          I will keep posting changes

          Thanks again.
          Khader
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          • #6
            That bottom photo of the inside is the light gabled portal frame I am talking about. It will still look modern as a gabled shed especially with metal cladding but now your client wants metal cladding you're going to have to make very sure you avoid thermal bridging. If you run your metal cladding horizontally then you only need vertical battens over horizontal girts. Try an aircell type product between the cladding and vertical top-hat battens. (http://www.kingspaninsulation.com.au...plicationID=11) That link is an Australian product but there must be similar in America.

            Come to think. That photo looks like laminated coolroom styrfoam cladding. If you can find enough cheap second hand that could be almost worth it.

            Horizontal metal cladding is a lot easier to seal at the slab edge and corners, especially standard corrugated zincalume. With the temperatures you'll experience I'd consider solid phenolic foam slabs between the girts glued in with expanded foam insulation around all edges and definitely foam rubber packers between the girt fixings and the main frame as well as the aircell insulation over the battens. That means two thermal bridges and two layers of insulation. I'd do exactly the same for the roof and then line the ceiling and walls inside the girts with plaster sheets (for thermal mass) fixed to tophats inside the girts. That will leave the main frame 2/3 exposed on the interior but it'll be warm anyway. If you make sure every bay is exactly the same you can paint the cut to size plaster sheeting (or downgrade plywood) on the ground before it goes up then you only have to put timber quad beading over edges.

            EDIT: Don't use styrofoam. Use phenolic foam. Just been to an industry seminar and styrofoam sucks hard. Phenolic foams outperform it on every front.
            Last edited by simon seasons; 29-03-2012, 11:37.

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            • #7
              A question about my drainage system

              Hi Friends:
              I am now designing a drainage system for my art studio. I was asked by the building department to minimize water run off. My roof is 2400 Sq.ft. I hope my design can help manage the run off.
              I am hoping a long open french drain system. will work and would be accepted by the building department. I don't have much experience designing such systems. Do you guys this system makes sense?
              Thanks. Khader
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              • #8
                I understand "run off" as meaning water that crosses the boundary onto a neighbours property in large volumes. Apart from the necessity of keeping large volumes of water away from your foundations, why not use those drainage channels as swales on the slope down towards the stream and let it run off naturally, or use a large tank to collect some of it.

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                • #9
                  I agree but

                  Environmental Department does not want me to send my run off to the stream, they are concerned about flooding. I don't have a foundation but it makes sense to have the french drain further from the building. It is sad to waste water. It could be used to flush toilets..and water garden..
                  I am not sure about the size. I think in the US there is formula for calculating the size of pipes and tank. I am going to send some version of this to the Department and see if they approve it.

                  Thanks.
                  Khader

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                  • #10
                    New render based on drawings from Steel company

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                    • #11
                      I managed to miss this until now.

                      Just a suggestion for the exterior walls: Consider using insulated panels instead of the conventional metal building insulation behind the wall panels. They are more expensive, but more efficient. They also offer flat surfaces for a crisper, more modern look. Insulated roof panels are also available. Since it appears that you will be furring the interior with metal studs and gypsum board, the exposed girts and purlins would be hidden anyway.

                      Butler and MBCI make them, among others. I think this may be similar to what Simon mentioned as coolroom insulation.

                      If you wind up using additional batts in the girt spaces to meet the insulation requirements, be careful about where the vapor barrier is and how permiable the facings are. The metal building people can help with that.

                      As for the drainage, depending on the type of soil you have there, I'd be very careful about introducing any water around the foundation with a french drain. If you have expansive soil, it could cause more problems than it solves.

                      I don't know what energy code you have to comply with there, but the 2012 IECC code is much more stringent. Everyone get ready!

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                      • #12
                        great work

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Khader View Post
                          Environmental Department does not want me to send my run off to the stream, they are concerned about flooding. I don't have a foundation but it makes sense to have the french drain further from the building. It is sad to waste water. It could be used to flush toilets..and water garden..
                          I am not sure about the size. I think in the US there is formula for calculating the size of pipes and tank. I am going to send some version of this to the Department and see if they approve it.
                          Khader
                          Khader,
                          The Environmental department doesn't typically want anyone to send water into the streams because it causes downstream flooding. Typically they want you to detain rain water to a certain amount on site. What you need to know from them is what type, and frequency rain event do they want you to design for. Rainfall has been classified into to Storm types, Frequency (2yr,, 10 yr. 25 yr...etc.). Generally, most jurisdictions don't expect you to retain the rainwater from a 100 year rainfall event. Typically it's 2 or 10 years. Once you get this information you can calculate how many cubic feet of water you need to store on site. He's an online calculator to get started.
                          http://www.lmnoeng.com/Hydrology/storage.htm
                          Based on your soils ability to absorb the water the size of a retention area would be a no brainer. Rain gardens are popular in a lot of areas and the your environmental department would be able to give you guidance on if they are generally feasible in your area. A landscape solution, rain garden, detention pond, bio-swale or combination may work. If you don't have enough area for a total landscape solution then your into a storage system. You could use a pipe and tanks but you just as well use a gravel filled pit (if all the gravel is uniform in size then 30% of the volume will be your storage capacity).
                          There should be some information out there with local agencies or groups that have solutions to this problem. The French drain around the base of the building is not used by anyone. As mentioned typically architects don't want water standing at the edge of the building as it can cause the soils to swell in some locations.
                          However, I see a great design opportunity here. Water is typically treated as a waste, to be hidden and stored out of site. Architects rarely celebrate rainwater runoff, but back in the 50's and 60' rain chains ( yea..they still sell them) were popular in modern home designs. Gleen Murcutt is one of few contemporary architects that actually make water and downspouts design features. And how the water meets the ground it a design element well studied in traditional far east gardens. Being in New York you also have the advantage (which is the opposite of problem) of water changing states during the year and freezing. I once saw the coolest fountain by Michael Valkenburg of a fountain the was designed as a water feature and ice feature…now how cool was that.
                          I too have worked on an artist studio and we have plans (waiting on him to finish his latest sculptures) to turn the gutter on the courtyard side of the building into a fountain by placing small holes of various sized and shapes in the side so water will shoot, drip and spray off the side in different patterns into a dry rock storage bed below. We’ll see how that works. Still, you have a great opportunity to use that area between the studio and house to make a great outdoor space that could change with the seasons.



                          I
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                          • #14
                            Thanks for the new feed back. I agree that rain garden and other methods would reduce run off. I found this website with good info http://raingardens.spawnusa.org/harv...landforms.html. I agree a rock garden can add beauty to a project.

                            This site is good place to figure out how much water to mange http://www.friendsoflittlehuntingcre...ption/roof.htm.

                            Gaffaman, your recommendation for not using the steel system is well taken. I will look into MBCI. I always worry about insulation and condensation. I just read the latest article in FineHome Building mag on building science and moisture. It left even more confused.. So many factors! Thanks everyone. Khader

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                            • #15
                              News from art stdio project:
                              We are getting cost estimates from contractors and they are twice as expensive as my client is willing to pay. the catch is that the steel building is not expensive to order but it cost good money to erect and finish.
                              So i am thinking of trying to build it out of a hybrid system steel and wood. using open joists for the roof and steel post around the parameter with 2x6 wood infill .
                              I need to consult with a structural engineer for final details but based on my understanding i think this should do it.
                              Now, i am waiting to hear from the steel guy.

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