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  • #76
    Traditionally such a post has a little skirt placed around it to hide the roughness of a join between apposing surfaces, hence the arrises on the post stopping high above the deck to accommodate the skirt below them. This skirt creates the effect of the post 'resting' on the deck, which is an acceptable falsehood. Without the skirt though, the post appears to be going through the deck, which it is in fact doing. Since the join is quite neat and doesn't really need covering up and the deck timbers are not spaced evenly (symmetrically) around the post and so the join can't be hidden by a skirt, why pretend to hide a fault that isn't there or create a separation that gains little and creates a new problem of noticing the lack of symmetry at the post bottom?

    The transition is dynamic at the moment in that it is a bold line perpendicular to the spreading horizontal plane of the deck and that bold line is moving up or down, which creates a deck plane that is either flowing away from the post or into and up the post. It becomes almost frantic and too dynamic. With a skirt the post will only be going upward from this resting point and so it will no longer be a transition from planar horizontal movement to vertical movement. It will be a separation of the horizontal from the vertical and the deck will have movement only outward away from the posts. The post will also loose it's dynamic lightness and become heavy at this point.

    Traditionally this is a good thing since it is thought that preponderance (in the sense of hierarchy or separation of the post as fundamental structure and the platform as fundamental stage) is more important than the possible confusion of roles. They are joined at this point and this junction has movement by its nature. Why hide that? What is honesty and deceit in architectural detail?

    Now paint the post white and I see this transition from rich reddy browns to stark white, slowing down that frantic movement. I don't see a clash occurring between the textures. I see a resolution of the problem of too much dynamism without separation that traditionally a skirt would negate. The separation, the slowing or stopping of dynamism, is no longer a physical deception since it can here be achieved with a separation of texture and colour, and since the dynamism is not totally separated and stopped it is now available for anyone to see it as they feel it. To my thinking it therefore gains an emotional honesty as it is freely interpretable as movement in many directions with free transition from platform to post and back again, as apposed to the dictated (and frankly dishonest) separation of these two functions. One does not really exist without the others being present, so why attempt to separate their intimacy?
    Last edited by simon seasons; 30-05-2010, 13:07.

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    • #77
      I think "I like it white." would have gotten the job done.

      I agree though, I like the contrast of the wood and the white post. I have really enjoyed seeing the step by step process of your remodeling. Keep it up!

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      • #78
        Originally posted by imasayer View Post
        I think "I like it white." would have gotten the job done.

        I agree though, I like the contrast of the wood and the white post. I have really enjoyed seeing the step by step process of your remodeling. Keep it up!
        You tease! Don't you know the mods chuck "I like it" into the trash bin?

        Seriously though. I enjoy the fact that I am taking a facadist mediocrity and making it more honest and i think I should provide the rational for future truth, justice and the anti facadist way forward.
        Last edited by simon seasons; 31-05-2010, 00:02.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by simon seasons View Post
          Traditionally such a post has a little skirt placed around it to hide the roughness of a join between apposing surfaces, hence the arrises on the post stopping high above the deck to accommodate the skirt below them. This skirt creates the effect of the post 'resting' on the deck, which is an acceptable falsehood. Without the skirt though, the post appears to be going through the deck, which it is in fact doing. Since the join is quite neat and doesn't really need covering up and the deck timbers are not spaced evenly (symmetrically) around the post and so the join can't be hidden by a skirt, why pretend to hide a fault that isn't there or create a separation that gains little and creates a new problem of noticing the lack of symmetry at the post bottom?

          The transition is dynamic at the moment in that it is a bold line perpendicular to the spreading horizontal plane of the deck and that bold line is moving up or down, which creates a deck plane that is either flowing away from the post or into and up the post. It becomes almost frantic and too dynamic. With a skirt the post will only be going upward from this resting point and so it will no longer be a transition from planar horizontal movement to vertical movement. It will be a separation of the horizontal from the vertical and the deck will have movement only outward away from the posts. The post will also loose it's dynamic lightness and become heavy at this point.

          Traditionally this is a good thing since it is thought that preponderance (in the sense of hierarchy or separation of the post as fundamental structure and the platform as fundamental stage) is more important than the possible confusion of roles. They are joined at this point and this junction has movement by its nature. Why hide that? What is honesty and deceit in architectural detail?

          Now paint the post white and I see this transition from rich reddy browns to stark white, slowing down that frantic movement. I don't see a clash occurring between the textures. I see a resolution of the problem of too much dynamism without separation that traditionally a skirt would negate. The separation, the slowing or stopping of dynamism, is no longer a physical deception since it can here be achieved with a separation of texture and colour, and since the dynamism is not totally separated and stopped it is now available for anyone to see it as they feel it. To my thinking it therefore gains an emotional honesty as it is freely interpretable as movement in many directions with free transition from platform to post and back again, as apposed to the dictated (and frankly dishonest) separation of these two functions. One does not really exist without the others being present, so why attempt to separate their intimacy?

          I still don't like it white.

          I can't speak for Gorgon but I wasn't analysing the horizontal and vertical lines, I was merely making an observation that there I didn't think It was working as a composition.

          Maybe you should inscribe your essay on the front fence so the importance of the white post isn't lost on passers by.

          anyway, perhaps it will look nicer once the house is painted

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Chris_ View Post
            I still don't like it white.

            I can't speak for Gorgon but I wasn't analysing the horizontal and vertical lines, I was merely making an observation that there I didn't think It was working as a composition.

            Maybe you should inscribe your essay on the front fence so the importance of the white post isn't lost on passers by.

            anyway, perhaps it will look nicer once the house is painted
            Ahh! but Chris. Why do you think it doesn't work compositionally. I've explained why I think it does (echos of minimalism I think.) How do you arrive at the aesthetic decision you do?

            I have to admit that I am going to paint it darker myself, but only because it's undercoat and I think I have to match the original colour of the rest of the house for economic purposes. I want to on-sell it quickly and it's a lot cheaper to just match the original colours, Manor Red and Cream, which I don't actually like. (The interior mint and aqua green is going to be all white as it's almost unbearable waking up to it)
            But , if I was keeping the house to live in myself, I would topcoat it white on the exterior for some of the architectural detailing reasons outlined above. In fact I'd paint all the old detailing white too!
            Last edited by simon seasons; 31-05-2010, 04:59.

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            • #81
              This is really weird. Just a moment ago, two boys about my younger daughters age (should be in school frankly) rode past on their scooters and yelled out "cool deck!".

              There is something about it that is really appealing to the young folk. I have never heard young people express an opinion on such things before. The next ones I am going to stop and ask them what is it they see so appealing.
              Last edited by simon seasons; 31-05-2010, 06:43.

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              • #82
                I'm partial to the white as well. It gives a good contrast to the wood bringing out the subtle colors. Similar to a reason a lot of prints are matted in white.

                Still, not having to paint the whole house is a real advantage.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by rmlongman View Post
                  I'm partial to the white as well. It gives a good contrast to the wood bringing out the subtle colors. Similar to a reason a lot of prints are matted in white.

                  Still, not having to paint the whole house is a real advantage.
                  Yeah, I am very inclined towards the white too. I think I'll leave it for a while and see how the whole deck looks but I think it's only going to get stronger as an element when that post has three more companions. Perhaps just the posts and beams at the front in white?

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by simon seasons View Post
                    Perhaps just the posts and beams at the front in white?
                    I think this would give you a more sophisticated color vocabulary than the traditional trim/siding color scheme. Especially if your going to use more natural wood in your repairs and additions.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by rmlongman View Post
                      I think this would give you a more sophisticated color vocabulary than the traditional trim/siding color scheme. Especially if your going to use more natural wood in your repairs and additions.
                      Thank you RM, and I also think the non traditional deck and extensions to come (as in lines and scales as well as natural wood textures) would need the integration into the old that a slightly discordant colour contrast would lend.
                      Last edited by simon seasons; 02-06-2010, 00:20.

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                      • #86
                        i missed the thread. to much going on this period here in greece. nice small symphatic project simon. Nice construction prozess

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by angelos View Post
                          i missed the thread. to much going on this period here in greece. nice small symphatic project simon. Nice construction prozess
                          Thank you Angelos. I am so busy with other stuff too, but I am busting to get the drawings done for the extension, which I think you're all going to really like. Measuring up starts tomorrow. Pressure's on!
                          Last edited by simon seasons; 25-10-2011, 01:45.

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                          • #88
                            Almost finished the eastern edge of the deck. This edge has a swelling in the middle (that's a straight edge on top of the boards) where the ends of the boards have been squeezed tighter than the middle of the boards over the whole width of the deck. The difference is only about 12mm but it does the same visual trick as the fat middle of a column used on greek temples to make the column look straight. On the deck it makes this really long edge look straight, which is especially important as it goes past the column. I cut 15mm off the last board to accentuate the effect.


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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by simon seasons View Post
                              Almost finished the eastern edge of the deck. This edge has a swelling in the middle (that's a straight edge on top of the boards) where the ends of the boards have been squeezed tighter than the middle of the boards over the whole width of the deck. The difference is only about 12mm but it does the same visual trick as the fat middle of a column used on greek temples to make the column look straight. On the deck it makes this really long edge look straight, which is especially important as it goes past the column. I cut 15mm off the last board to accentuate the effect.
                              You bowed the timber to make it look straight? Why doesn't straight timber look straight? The half plank looks unfinished.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by AgentVlin View Post
                                You bowed the timber to make it look straight? Why doesn't straight timber look straight? The half plank looks unfinished.
                                There's an edge piece yet to go hard against the last board, that will bring that last board back to the same width as the others, otherwise that thinnest part of the profile would be on the edge and might break off and I also want to drain surface water past the ends of the joists. When I wrote about 'cutting 15mm off to accentuate the effect' I forgot to add that I would be replacing it with an edge piece, so the accentuation is in having the same width boards and not a finished edge board fatter than all the rest.

                                Unbelievably it does make the deck timbers look straight, and no I didn't actually do it on purpose. It was one of my fortunate accidents, but if you reference greek temples you'll read about this visual illusion which was countered by making the columns slight wider in the centre, and tilting the outer columns inward to make them appear straight. When you looked up at the temple from the ground the illusion that the temple columns were falling outward was corrected and so was the illusion of the individual columns getting narrower in the middle.

                                If it didn't accidentally happen though, the visual distortion caused by the post being so close to the edge would have made the edge appear to go in and be waisted at that point. Bellied out, it corrects the illusion and makes it look straight. My photos probably don't do it justice, but I didn't notice it until I put down that straight edge saw guide to trim the end of the deck and then realised what had happened and how lucky I am sometimes.

                                Have to admit that directly in front of it you can see the distortion, but from the deck itself and from the lawn and where the steps will be, it looks great.
                                Last edited by simon seasons; 08-06-2010, 09:04.

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