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  • #61
    Originally posted by simon seasons View Post
    Today its got a grip like nuns knees!
    haha...

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    • #62
      Originally posted by simon seasons View Post
      The main difference affecting "dry as a bone" stone buildings is being built in dry as a bone climates.
      No chance, I'm thinking of a holiday house my family has in the North West of Scotland one of the most consistently wet locations in the world, and the stone/underbuilding is bone dry with no dpc. Sure it's cold too.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by gorgon View Post
        No chance, I'm thinking of a holiday house my family has in the North West of Scotland one of the most consistently wet locations in the world, and the stone/underbuilding is bone dry with no dpc. Sure it's cold too.
        Hmm interesting. Does the building have large eaves and is it on a rise?

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        • #64
          Originally posted by simon seasons View Post
          Now the deck timbers go down. They are Black Butt with a strange profile which I don't know what the original intention was for (possibly edge joining with a whip tongue but unlikely since they are cambered to disperse water).
          The profile is for a hidden clip fixing system. You screw a plastic clip into the top of the joist and it holds the board. There are shit loads of systems available such as THIS ONE, but they all work on pretty much the same premise. Gives a nice fixing free deck if that's what you're after.

          Also on the dry dpc less stone walls, I reckon a big factor on the dampness of the wall will be the actual stones and mortar (if any) used. A sedimentary stone like sandstone will have a whole lot more capilliary action going on to draw the moisture up (or more often into) the wall, whereas an igneous stone (basalt) or metamorphic stone (marble) a whole lot less and so act as a barrier to water penetration. Mortars will have the same issues with the denser the mortar (and probably also the thinner the bed) the less water. Same again for concrete where a 40Mpa mix will give you a lot better waterproofing than a 20Mpa. Simple physics - the water needs a void to occupy first off, and the thinner the void the further the water will be drawn in (capilliary action).

          That is also why a good dry stone wall (no mortar) can be drier than a mortared wall - the voids between the stones are far too big to create any capilliary action and so the water (and vapour) that penetrates the outside of the wall condenses and isn't wind driven far into the wall (same principle as a rain screen facade). There the droplets find there way down (under gravity) and to the outside face of the wall (if the wall has been properly constructed).
          Last edited by awa; 24-05-2010, 12:24.

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          • #65
            Thanks Andrew. Two birds with one stone!

            I must say though that I can't believe a plastic clip would hold these deck timbers too well. It takes several heavy duty clamps for me to get them straight before I nail them. Perhaps that's why they're downgrades sold at auction.
            Last edited by simon seasons; 24-05-2010, 12:36.

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            • #66
              The decking goes down slowly but I trimmed off the ends yesterday of those done so far, to make it safe and to see how the bearers underneath look, and I am really liking the post rising straight out of the deck.
              [ATTACH]Attachment [/ATTACH]
              Attached Files

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              • #67
                I've left a slight gap between the post and deck timber to stop moisture being held there and where boards aren't long enough to go the full length I have attempted to match the timbers. I have also kept all the joined pieces over to the side where a couch seat will cover them up.


                [ATTACH]Attachment [/ATTACH]
                Attached Files

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by simon seasons View Post
                  Hmm interesting. Does the building have large eaves and is it on a rise?
                  No to the eaves and flat on the ground. I see tonnes of these all over the place in wet mashes, sandy soils, clay and all kinds of stone, sandstone, granite, limestone with lime mortars and concrete mortars.

                  My conslusion is that unless you have a material that wicks water up (timber, cob etc) most walls could do without a dpc. Anyway sorry to hijak your thread.

                  Looking good although the deck is a bit close to the street for my comfort. Are you going to grow some tall stuff in front?
                  Oh and does the post have to white? It's a bit stark against the lovely natural colours of the deck.
                  Last edited by gorgon; 27-05-2010, 10:59.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by gorgon View Post
                    No to the eaves and flat on the ground. I see tonnes of these all over the place in wet mashes, sandy soils, clay and all kinds of stone, sandstone, granite, limestone with lime mortars and concrete mortars.

                    My conslusion is that unless you have a material that wicks water up (timber, cob etc) most walls could do without a dpc. Anyway sorry to hijak your thread.

                    Looking good although the deck is a bit close to the street for my comfort. Are you going to grow some tall stuff in front?
                    Oh and does the post have to white? It's a bit stark against the lovely natural colours of the deck.

                    I think awa's suggestion as to density of the stone is a good conclusion to your hijack. (No worries kieran, I love segue)

                    Yes we are thinking of planting something fully grown to hide the street from the front yard but we are also thinking of simply recycling a heap of lattice from the pergola frame too. Unfortunately we'll have to argue through council for it as there are fairly strict hight limits to front fences but we intend to just get it all done and sell up within 18 months, so it's not too critical either way as long as it's ready when the house goes up for sale.

                    The posts only have their undercoats on at the moment. We haven't yet decided but we think we'll just stick to the original colour scheme of dark red (called Manor Red but that sounds soooo pretentious) as that'll be easier than repainting the whole house.

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                    • #70
                      Explain to me the reason for such a wide gap between the deck planking. I saw this large gap in a gallery that ran down the side of the 2nd floor of a house that I was staying at a couple of years ago in Brisbane and didn't understand it then. What was odd was the porch had been enclosed and most of the house was conditioned, but now that I think of it the gallery wasn't. It was weird looking down to the garage or hallway below.

                      Typically we call for the gap to be the width of fastener, enough to let the water off but not enough to get a woman's shoe heels stuck.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by rmlongman View Post
                        Explain to me the reason for such a wide gap between the deck planking. I saw this large gap in a gallery that ran down the side of the 2nd floor of a house that I was staying at a couple of years ago in Brisbane and didn't understand it then. What was odd was the porch had been enclosed and most of the house was conditioned, but now that I think of it the gallery wasn't. It was weird looking down to the garage or hallway below.

                        Typically we call for the gap to be the width of fastener, enough to let the water off but not enough to get a woman's shoe heels stuck.

                        The woman's heel came up in regards to my eldest daughters outrageously high heels too. I was going to make them about 10mm but decided to go for 12mm so that heels wouldn't become trapped, because my overriding consideration was that the wide gaps are for underfloor ventilation. We have prevailing north winds (which is a reason I am thinking twice about raising the height of the front fence) and a site sloped to the west through which a lot of ground water passes in winter. In summer it gets hot and dry and fairly stiil.

                        To cool the house as well as ventilate in summer I have placed a 100mm deep gravel bed under the whole deck area and the wide gaps will allow the air to flow over the cool gravel bed before it goes under the house. Without the wide gaps the air under the floor would be too still and the soil would stay moist. With the gravel bed I can allow the rain water to flow past in winter and use it to cool the air down further in summer. See post above about the shape of the boards too.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by simon seasons View Post
                          I think awa's suggestion as to density of the stone is a good conclusion to your hijack.
                          No sorry that idea is not even close to the truth.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by gorgon View Post
                            No sorry that idea is not even close to the truth.
                            I remember my lecturer talking about the Romans in Britain inventing the cavity wall for their early barracks buildings. I also worked on an old stone house once that was built with a cavity wall except the cavity had been filled with rubble and stone dust, which was really wet when we broke open the wall.

                            I think there must be a kernel of truth in capillary action because I am using it in the gravel bed to provide evaporative cooling under the deck and in Sydney sandstone you can sometimes see moisture low in the walls and higher up in winter of those house built in what used to be old creek beds.

                            Solid stones and mortars I am not an expert in, but your suggestion gets me thinking about stone foundations with insulated timber frames above. As I say I love a segue, no highjacking felt here.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by gorgon View Post
                              Oh and does the post have to white? It's a bit stark against the lovely natural colours of the deck.
                              Ha! Funny thing Kieran. My younger teenage daughter and her friends came home from school the other day and today she tells me they all thought the white post coming straight out of the lovely timber deck "looked really cool!"

                              What do I do now? Go with the younger generation's aesthetic or stick with us older fuds?

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by gorgon View Post
                                Oh and does the post have to white? It's a bit stark against the lovely natural colours of the deck.
                                you beat me to it!

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