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  • #46
    Then beaten tight and flat.

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    • #47
      Then the joist timber gets spliced so that they reach the distance with a single line of nails in the deck timbers. Spacing at 450mm C. 12 screws per splice.


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      • #48
        Just had the building inspector (underling to the other one thank goodness) signing off on the house re-stumping and the new deck/veranda.
        He passed it all but he suggested that I use, for longevity, treated pine for the bearers and joists on the exposed deck instead of KD hard wood.

        Pigs bottom will I ever use treated pine for anything, but i humored him by talking a bit of knowledgeable talk and will see him again no doubt.

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        • #49
          Here's the deck joists all finished and a close up of the moisture prevention. This is a strip of damp proof barrier on top of bearers and joists and a bead of silicon at the base of the joist (front and back) where it crosses the bearer. As the deck is slightly tipped at about 2 degrees I used the cross hatched damp proof plastic so that water didn't build up against the joist.


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          • #50
            Now the deck timbers go down. They are Black Butt with a strange profile which I don't know what the original intention was for (possibly edge joining with a whip tongue but unlikely since they are cambered to disperse water). They are a down grade from an auction house via my trusty recycled salvage centre.

            I pre-drill the deck timber but not the joist and then use galvanised deck nails that have a twisted shank that screws into the timber as it's driven home.

            As I have them spread at 12mm to maximise ventilation and they run almost due north south, I am going to use the profile to get less sunlight onto the gravel bed stones in the afternoon than in the morning. This should stop the gravel getting too hot in summer while allowing through more sun in winter as at a lower angle the sun can get into this groove for longer.


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            Last edited by simon seasons; 24-05-2010, 00:27.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by simon seasons View Post
              Here's the deck joists all finished and a close up of the moisture prevention. This is a strip of damp proof barrier on top of bearers and joists and a bead of silicon at the base of the joist (front and back) where it crosses the bearer. As the deck is slightly tipped at about 2 degrees I used the cross hatched damp proof plastic so that water didn't build up against the joist.
              This seems a bit over the top to me. DPC's stop mositure rising, what function do they provide here in a free air movement open (rained upon) situation?

              On a slightly different track, I recently read a paper that suggested that in all but the most damp, wet conditions (the word bog was used) dpcs are not necessary. Many of the rising damp conditions where injected dpcs are then specified at high cost can be treated with adequate ventilation instead. The paper suggested that injection dpc companies and insurance companies had invented this whole idustry.

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              • #52
                ps the redwood deck looks great!

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by gorgon View Post
                  This seems a bit over the top to me. DPC's stop mositure rising, what function do they provide here in a free air movement open (rained upon) situation?
                  It's an adaption of the dpc in that I am using it to stop water settling on top of the bearers and joists on that part of the deck that is not under cover. The decking boards are slightly cambered for the same reason. If water can sit on the wood and soak in, the timber will rot quickly.

                  The advantage of that particular dpc is that it has a raised hatch pattern that will stop the water flowing down against the lower joist as well as keeping the wood underneath dry. Another two advantages are that being a polyvinyl chloride it is uv resistant and will expand in the heat. Expanding in the heat means that it will buckle slightly, lifting it off the timber, which will allow any condensation underneath to evaporate quickly. It also stretches a long way so that when I am clamping and nailing the boards to the joists, it doesn't tear. (Clamping and nailing is essential to get all the various degrees of warp out of individual boards) I considered bitumen felt which would last longer than pvc, but rejected it for that tearing reason.
                  Last edited by simon seasons; 24-05-2010, 00:29.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by gorgon View Post

                    On a slightly different track, I recently read a paper that suggested that in all but the most damp, wet conditions (the word bog was used) dpcs are not necessary. Many of the rising damp conditions where injected dpcs are then specified at high cost can be treated with adequate ventilation instead. The paper suggested that injection dpc companies and insurance companies had invented this whole idustry.
                    Adequate ventilation might solve most damp problems ON A LEVEL SITE. On a sloped site then ventilation and water runoff detailing has to be employed together. Otherwise a damp proof course is like a poor guarantee against shoddy detailing.

                    We used to rent a pise/cob earth house, near our last house, which had no foundations other than a trench in which the walls were built and no damp proof course above ground level. The walls were wet right to the top almost constantly and when not wet on the surface you could feel the cold inside them. Terrible memories of a relentless freezing cold in that place. The original builders were from Mediterranean Italy and simply transferred the technique they were used to to a freezing, high rainfall, high altitude (slow evaporation) climate. Duh, I would have said!

                    In an old house like that there would be a good case for injecting dpc's but in reality most new masonry or slabbed house's have a dpc that lines the sides of the trenches or slab area before a pour and it sticks out of the ground and flaps in the wind after the builders have left. Some people then go along and trim it all off at ground level which of course defeats its purpose. A good detail to preserve its dfc effect is to fold it up against the slab and then hide it with course gravel that will drain or paving sloped away from the slab
                    Last edited by simon seasons; 24-05-2010, 01:04.

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                    • #55
                      The deckings looking very nice simon. The little kick out on the end is a nice touch.

                      I have a question in regards to the direction you have laid your decking i.e. perpendicular to the house.

                      My grandfather (a builder) once explained to me that decking is best running parallel to the house. this way, when the first meter or so get weathered, you only need to replace that portion of the deck. As opposed to your case in which you would need to replace the whole deck?

                      My parents house is a californian bungalow, and when they re-decked it and extended the verandah they decided it would cost too much to switch the direction of the decking. Did you have a similar situation?

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Chris_ View Post
                        My grandfather (a builder) once explained to me that decking is best running parallel to the house. this way, when the first meter or so get weathered, you only need to replace that portion of the deck. As opposed to your case in which you would need to replace the whole deck?
                        That is the practicle answer and is probably right. But look at the way light reflects along the grain of the wood and you'll see that Simon's way is more beautiful.

                        I first read about this in Japan where temples were built with various decked platforms on the outside of the house, called nuri-en, these would traditionally have the grain facing the sun to bounce light into the interior. Having read that I started looking out for it and to be honest I found about 50% of the time it was facing out, 50% of the time parallell to the building

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Chris_ View Post
                          The deckings looking very nice simon. The little kick out on the end is a nice touch.

                          I have a question in regards to the direction you have laid your decking i.e. perpendicular to the house.

                          My grandfather (a builder) once explained to me that decking is best running parallel to the house. this way, when the first meter or so get weathered, you only need to replace that portion of the deck. As opposed to your case in which you would need to replace the whole deck?

                          My parents house is a californian bungalow, and when they re-decked it and extended the verandah they decided it would cost too much to switch the direction of the decking. Did you have a similar situation?
                          Hi Chris. It's true that the under cover boards will weather more slowly but I am not going to treat them with anything so they are going to go grey much more evenly as the whole deck and verandah gets northern sun. When treated with a sealer or oil, boards out in the open rot much faster, I think because the solar weathering is accelerated under the sealer, sort of like the reverse effect of a sunscreen. The difference in this situation is water exposure, not solar exposure.

                          My solution is to ensure that I use the cambered board so that no water sits on the boards top surface and to not use a sealer. I also used Black Butt which is one of the most durable decking timbers available. (and outrageously expensive but I got it cheap at $2000 for the whole deck. In contrast the bushfire recovery ash for bearers and joists cost $400)

                          Finally, all the floor boards in the house run North/south and this was a factor in designing the deck as I really want to use the open front door behind an insect screen technique for ventilation and light.

                          About the kick out. I am going to lay large stones against the edge of the deck and the lawn so that most of the front yard up to the main entry route, will be level with the timber deck. Past the entry step, and a little circular whole for the Mulberry tree, will be that kick out. Because the Mulberry tree provides a circular hole (in deck) I thought why not create a turn in deck direction there that serves to delineate the public entry from the private entry down the side of the house by drawing visitors to the step that will be to the left of the tree. To augment that I made the edges of the deck corner a 600mm bearer cantilever to the north and 360mm joist cantilever to the east, (hence the kick out) that will make the deck appear to be floating, and therefore uncomfortable to step on. Therefore no visitor should step onto it and peer into the bedroom that is behind that tree.

                          The kick out thus provides a public and a private area of the deck
                          Last edited by simon seasons; 25-10-2011, 01:37.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by simon seasons View Post
                            We used to rent a pise/cob earth house, near our last house, which had no foundations other than a trench in which the walls were built and no damp proof course above ground level. The walls were wet right to the top almost constantly and when not wet on the surface you could feel the cold inside them. Terrible memories of a relentless freezing cold in that place. The original builders were from Mediterranean Italy and simply transferred the technique they were used to to a freezing, high rainfall, high altitude (slow evaporation) climate. Duh, I would have said
                            Well a no foundation cob building (aka a sponge) is a slightly extreme example! Other examples are foundation less and dpc less stone buildings all over the world that are dry as a bone. A concrete foundation (or stone) is basically a dpc anyway.
                            discuss.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by gorgon View Post
                              Well a no foundation cob building (aka a sponge) is a slightly extreme example! Other examples are foundation less and dpc less stone buildings all over the world that are dry as a bone. A concrete foundation (or stone) is basically a dpc anyway.
                              discuss.
                              I disagree. A major factor in cold surfaces is the level of moisture present, not just temperature transference (such as that avoided by insulation). Without a dpc I am sure that a foundation will be wetter and hence colder to touch than than one with a dpc barrier.

                              The main difference affecting "dry as a bone" stone buildings is being built in dry as a bone climates.
                              Last edited by simon seasons; 24-05-2010, 06:57.

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                              • #60
                                Slightly interesting note:
                                I just went back to work on the deck and it's about 5 degrees cooler than yesterday and one out of every two nails is bending before it gets through even the predrilled hole, where-as yesterday I only had about five bent nails over the whole lot. Obviously the timber grain gets tighter the colder it gets. Today its got a grip like nuns knees! Gotta get out the wax.
                                Last edited by simon seasons; 24-05-2010, 06:56.

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