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"- BEFORE THE ARCHITECT, Custom Homes Specialists - YOU GET UNIQUE HOUSE PLANS AND NOT A HANDFUL OF PRETTY PICTURES"
"Our work at Before The Architect is most useful to and appreciated by those who have been-there, done-that with some architects and builders, and prefer not to go back there and get it done to them again."
"Architecture is a bag of air, until the dirt and sawdust start to fly. True designers, the truly creative arrive in beat up vans and pickup trucks."
"To all who pass this way, please know that what's to follow is harvested from life experience consulting on, designing, and drafting house plans.
If any two from the following list apply to you, please do NOT contact Before The Architect. Go screw up someone else's business. We're not right for you. (These lines may be sung a cappella to that oldie but goodie "Dolorous Dirge of the Dastardly Deadbeat.")
I am taking care of this for another (who’s actually paying).
I have a tiny budget that I won't tell you about, and I'll put up a big stink when you break over it. (Variants: I know what this should cost ['cause it's all I'm going to pay]; I know you’re cheaper, right?)
I could do this, if I had the time (a/k/a "if it were up to me, I wouldn't have done it the way you did it.")
Help me make the architect that I've hired listen to me.
I am doing this because I’m told that I have to.
My relative is the general contractor (a variant of which is, among others, I built a house once upon a time, so I am an expert).
You do just enough to get the permit ( a variant of which is, among others, I don't need elevations; another variant of which is - I need something to market the house, impress buyers, but not enough to even get a permit).
Help me, structural engineers run from my problem like their hair was on fire.
You settle this dispute (including, but not limited to, marital dispute, dispute with an architect, dispute with an inspector, etc.).
I've had this picture of my perfect house in my head for oh so long, and just never could get others to see it.
I waited too long, now I'm in a hurry.
You can’t talk with my partner.
Send me the .dwg file.
Well, things aren't exactly the way I said the last time. (Variants: That's not what a professional designer would have done; That's not what I had hoped for; That's not what I expected - I expected miracles, mind-reading, magic)
Show me some of your work [after not paying attention to 250+ pages of our website and 600+ pics of all aspects of our work].
Gotta have a contract. (Not once, since we started work in the '60s, have we formally contracted for work of any kind. What we've experienced first-hand over and over – Doing business with an honest client, you don't need a contract. Doing business with a dishonest client, a contract doesn't mean diddly-squat. )
Do you hold checks?
Hi, I'm a real estate broker. (Variants: Hi, I'm a real estate speculative developer; Hi, I'm a building contractor; Hi, I'm a professional building tradesman.) [This applies whether you're retired, the real deal, or a wannabe.] *
Hi, I'm a real estate broker. (Variants: Hi, I'm a real estate developer; Hi, I'm a contractor; Hi, I'm a professional building tradesman.) [This applies whether you're retired, the real deal, or a wannabe.] *
*For those slow with subtlety, these are two-fers right from the get-go: real estate brokers, speculative real estate developers, building contractors, building tradesmen - all are categorically banned from our services. You see, we have a conflict of interest with respect to this pack of professionals: we're interested in getting paid. Note that sins 18 and 19 do not involve architects, designers, engineers, and inspectors.
If you're still in good humor or, even better, laughing, chances are excellent that you'll make another great client."
...Just a few quotes from BEFORE THE ARCHITECT (http://www.beforethearchitect.com/) website... amazing... :bang head
"In Concept Drawings (aka "massing" to architects), you'll see block shapes of what's already there and what's to be added or changed. The barest details are sketched in, the essential elements of outline. No windows sills. No wood grain. No details and dimensions. Just shapes of things done and things to come. You see architects develop concept work in the plain box shapes they build in order to make sure things fit, look good, and go where they're supposed to. The only difference is that the AG uses a computer where the architects use scissors, glue, and foam board." :eek:
That's unbelieveable! Is it for real? :puke:
never heard anything about them...
How did you find them, Mitch? :wondering
WilsonMetry
14-10-2005, 21:30
Its not good karma that their whole marketing scheme is based on negativity.
"first and most important, architects are no good" :no no no:
bad vibe if you ask me, not to metion shocking ignorance.
Dont know what to say....unbelievable.
jparchitectus
14-10-2005, 21:41
It is aweful...maybe I am misunderstandign article...but for example real estate brokers, builders, and contractors are always approaching us about work, or potential work. Brokers using us to figure out maximum property usage to help thier sale with the "potential" of getting the job.
well, i live in an area where this attitude about architects is very much the rule. we are seen as touchy-feelie time wasters, out of touch with reality and the practical realities of building. our profession has become very sensitive to this kind of trash talking and it really pisses me off that sometimes we start to believe it ourselves and sometimes we spread the same kind of BS...
if you ask me it is not nearly so shocking to hear this kind of garbage coming from someone who is outside of the profession, but imagine having the same concescending view and espousing it to others - and you're an architect...???! this is a link to a local architect's web site. to a page marked 'for contractor's only.' arrogant scofflaw that i am, i looked anyway... :P
this is amazing!
http://www.heilandhoffarchitecture.com/wst_page5.html
primocordara
14-10-2005, 22:26
"Architects are weird. They float back from design school with a hatload of ideas about how to celebrate spaces and articulate surfaces, but they haven't a clue what holds things together"
:eek:
sigue2000
14-10-2005, 22:46
"- BEFORE THE ARCHITECT, Custom Homes Specialists - YOU GET UNIQUE HOUSE PLANS AND NOT A HANDFUL OF PRETTY PICTURES"
"Our work at Before The Architect is most useful to and appreciated by those who have been-there, done-that with some architects and builders, and prefer not to go back there and get it done to them again."
"Architecture is a bag of air, until the dirt and sawdust start to fly. True designers, the truly creative arrive in beat up vans and pickup trucks."
Pure evil.
JesseJacob had already replied to this:
http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=861&highlight=world
'I’m feeling a bit disillusioned with the world. People seem incredibly fake so often, I find it frustrating.' :bang head
I knew people were going to love this webshite... Bring the guy in, he's dead :D :D
franjayo
15-10-2005, 03:11
Nice site for a psychologist seeking a patient.
The guy hides his name and calls himself AG - Autocad Grand Dad?, sounds like a frustrated draftsman to me but this "former Citibank Vice President" says his education is:
"FORMAL EDUCATION
MBA, Management and Administration, Indiana University School of Business, Bloomington, IN, 1969; BA, Economics, Union College, Schenectady, NY, 1967; Diploma, Grosse Pointe University School (now University-Liggett), Grosse Pointe Woods, MI, 1963."
This sounds like a con man. Any references to back him?
He could not hold his job nor practice in his "field of knowledge" but he has a successful designing practice with 70 years combined building experience.
It shows that it pays to criticize architects. Many people probably sympathize due to the bad publicity architects get and the common knowledge that architects design houses "not the way customers want". It should teach us something.
drichards
15-10-2005, 05:12
Just the list of quotes on this site is amazing.
As a technologist working for an architect I would have to disagree with his before and after segment. Our detailing covers his almost to a tee, but we go even further as to detail connections at any points that we see as a critical junction. We often deal with renovations and provide extremely detailed drawings to allow us and our clients more time doing what we/they do best instead of answering the phone, because the contractor or the trades people don't understand or perhaps there is a discrepency or they are unsure as to what is to be done. Detailing is everything. It is our quality control. Detail it right up front, and it will save you for years to come.
Just for an example the architect I work for is known in the surrounding industry as the "sealant king".
I have learned a copius amount of construction and document knowledge from him and I would have to say in his mind there is no such thing as overdetailing. But there are two defining factors for being able to have a continuing job in all of this.
1. Time
&
2.Money
Both of which effect the end result from initial conception to project completion through to building life-cycle. Which is weighted where in the clients mind and how can we save the client both time and money. I could go on and on. What I am trying to say is:
Thank you so much for posting this. It is really motivating.
That 'before the architect really knows what he is on about. Hey all you have to do is check out his stuff. What can I say this is pure gold. A true genius walks among us at "Before the Architect" check out this stellar concept drawing. I think I'm going to give up architecture - how can we compete. Everyone pens down. Now where is that number for the Taxi driver registration hmmmm........
Sorry I just wet my pants.
Quote from Before the Architect.
"Here, we're getting up close in 3 dimensions. That's the kicker. And that's what makes this shot special. You will see, up close on the coffer ceiling frame you can see all it takes to build it. Conventionally, a draftsman must do three different draftings of carpentry plans to get everything across to a carpenter: 1) a plan view; 2) an elevation; and 3) a cross-section. Maybe even throw in a detail or a lot of words of explanation. We do all three in one.
Take a look. "
:craqueur:
Give up Ryo!
sigue2000
15-10-2005, 07:45
Rvider those are copyrighted !!! You're stealing the man's precious genius. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Rvider those are copyrighted !!! You're stealing the man's precious genius. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I prefer
Rvider those are copyrighted !!! You're sharing the man's precious genius.
Cheers
:cheers:
franjayo
15-10-2005, 13:03
The clinical psychologist interpretation of architects and "architectonics"?:
http://keirsey.com/personality/ntip.html
jparchitectus
15-10-2005, 14:25
I took a look at the "detailed" drawings last night myself and was blown away. I may have to reconsider my profession after seeing those highly detailed drawings...and 50-60 pages!
Here are some of my personal business and behavioral characteristics that disqualify me from architecthood.
I don't charge too much.
Albeit I am slow in my work progress, I am not that slow.
I know that down all the years some have openly, honestly praised my achievements to third parties - an act which, on behalf of any architect, would for me be a novel experience.
I haven't embraced a monopoly guild, choking the life out of both competitors and clients.
I take the needs and wants of my clients very seriously, write them down, consider them constantly, incorporate them in my home building plans line by line.
I actually know a lot about actually building because I am an actual builder.
My beloved wife does the difficult design thinking, because she is gifted at it and I am not.
It is not my self-concept that clients darken my doorstep for salvation.
It is not my world view that all would benefit by doing it my way.
I don't own a pair of khakis, a Polo shirt, or chichi shoes.
Brie and Chablis are prohibited ingestibles hereabouts.
I drink beer and drive a pickup truck.
This is sad to say but I think this guy is actually in my area (770 area code is in the Atlanta, Ga area)... This actually doesn't suprise me. In Georgia you don't have to have an architectural stamp to build homes(developers rule, but then again where don't they?). Hell, you don't even have to have a general contractors licence to build (residential that is & some small commercial).
Anyhow, I have a brother-in-law who has an MBA from UGA and then was in computers for years with Compaq and then HP. He got laid off a few yeas ago and decided he wanted to build log cabins in North Georgia. Well he built one and sold it and now is doing about 4 other homes, of a more conventional building type (he found the log cabin route wasn't a good one for him). Anyhow, at the dinner table he has made outragous claims that architects don't know how to build things and that most of the time the builders he has met will take a quick glance at the architectural drawings but then they will do it "there way" in the end. Of course this is followed up with "I bought some house plans from a guy up in the mountains, out of a pawn shop". How do you respond to this?
I bit my lip and let it slide but this kind of mentality scares the crap outa me... Our profession is in serious decay and the AIA and other type associations that are supposedly out there for us aren't doing crap (besides patting themselves on the back)... talk about fustrating... why the hell did I waste my 20's going to get my architecture degree?
enough rant... I am going to find out who this company is and be sure I am going to send this thread to others in my office... incredible stuff....
Wizum
Pedro Barradas
17-10-2005, 01:25
Quoting Jbender,
this is amazing!
http://www.heilandhoffarchitecture.com/wst_page5.html
How can a guy with architecture license not be prosecuted, for difamation, etc...
In my country he would be expell from the Architects Order, and I would like to be myself to do it... :mad:
don´t have anything more to say...
And the Order would even prossecuted him for defamation...and etc... :mad:
Like I mentioned before you... Thats the AIA for ya... useless... but I'm not bitter :)
Wizum
Juan Gomez-Velez
17-10-2005, 06:17
Friends
The deliberate bashing of architects is something architects usually excel at. We shouldn’t be amazed that a person marginally related to one aspect of our field takes us up on this. That this sort of mendacity is marketable is to be expected. The offers are such that any or all takers shall probably get what they pay for. Let the buyer beware.
Building at a small or domestic level is similar to the business of purchasing major appliances at a retail level; it's something any given person does rarely. Those interested in obtaining services should look for physical and financial track record or for personal references. People usually prefer to buy their appliances at Sears, not at a corner flea market. People poll their aquaintances to find a tailor, a mechanic or a dentist, a reliable one.... a good one at that, if such a statement has any true meaning to more than one particular person in any given situation.
I'm amazed only on the emphasis on denying the possibility of benefiting from the expertise of a seasoned professional at least in some instances. This is a risky approach, truly a bad marketing strategy. The notion that you are always being had, should be suspect. Nothing is truly right or wrong all of the time.
In any case we should start setting an example by striving to treat each other with at least some consideration, with courtesy...professional courtesy. Our detractors should not learn the particular skills of architect and architecture bashing from us. As for the author of this service and site, the best of luck, my condolences to those willing and able to invest earnest money in him, it's a free market, and they may just be getting what they've paid for.
Just my two cents
Saludos
Juan
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