I'm working as an architect in the Middle East and frankly the working hours are hellish and it's taking its toll on me, and ultimately affecting my productivity. It's a very small office and we work from 8 a.m to 6 p.m five days a week plus an extra half day from 8 to 1. Yes, we have just a one day weekend. (Or one and a half to be accurate).
I want to know if this is normal practice or are we being exploited. They (the boss) reasons that the work in an architecture office never "stops" so we have to work 6 days a week (he tries to make us work all 7 days by buying us lunch on that 7th day). I should add that as designers none of us in the office ever get ANY work accomplished during that half day (we spend it playing online games; none of us are in the mood or right mind set to work on a weekend).

This is a very common practice in small offices. You cant blame your boss for doing that. Since there is a shortage of architects in the middle east and tons of projects.
You just have to stand upto your boss and let them know that you should be paid for the extra time. otherwise this is pure exploitation.

I work in dubai. My office is quite big and organized. 42.5 hours / 5 days /. Have to stay back longer if its really needed. Otherwise its fine.

BTW Welcome to pushpullbar.

Thank you for the prompt reply. Wow, Dubai and you only work 42.5 hours a week. I work 55 hours but you know what, I'll try to be optimistic; I'm a fresh graduate and I should be grateful for the job. Get my two years work experience and then I can move on to better places.
Anybody else with tales of exploitation?

The office I work at is 9-5, Mon-Fri with a lunch hour, but it is a medium sized office and if there are heavy deadlines people come in earlier and leave late

jerkmeister, tell your boss that that will ensure staff unloyalty and a high-turnover rate.

Australian "normal" hours are 37.5. That's for public srvants and big business.
BUT, a small employer is measured by the value they place on staff.
Some play the game of pressure and demand and think that being frantic, or busy means they are successful. In my experience and opinion, that's NOT good.
There's a time for busy, but there's also a time for play, fishing, archery, kids, drinking, art, talking, family, and believe it or not, just sitting and sometimes doing nothing.
As a new graduate it must be difficult, but as someone who has "been there, done that", I can tell you not all people value work above all else.
Stress is real - so is LIFE, make sure you have a good measure of both, and don't believe everything a hard taskmaster tells you!

Short answer .... (but not knowing the full circumstances) sounds, like you're being used.

oh man after reading that... I am grateful for my 9-6 five days a week working hours!

although I do have to wake up at least an hour early to actually get there on time for 9.

Maybe you are being abused, but in any event you are paying your dues.

Right now their may not be much you can do about it.

But in a few years, are you going to be treating your staff the same way?

When the temptation strikes, remember how productive everyone is on Saturdays.

Australian "normal" hours are 37.5.


I have been popping out a few consecutive 90 hour weeks.

About to contrast that with a few weeks by the beautiful ocean...

Most people here (about 8 employees) start between 8.30 and 10.00 and leave between 5 and 6.30. A break at noon of about 45 minutes. Working 5 days a week.

This is no architecture office though, it's an artist studio. The working habits have changed a bit. Seems like there were lots of extra hours some years ago, but after some conflicts there is sort of a consensus between colleagues that we don't do extra hours, only for important deadlines.

our hours are usually 830 to 5. working 37.5 hrs a week with a hr lunch. 1 vacation day per month, 3/4 personal/sick day per month. the days accumulate and if u want to you can make up hours and not take the sick day and save it.

our hours are usually 830 to 5. working 37.5 hrs a week with a hr lunch. 1 vacation day per month, 3/4 personal/sick day per month. the days accumulate and if u want to you can make up hours and not take the sick day and save it.

Vacancy in your office? :D

I don't know.

I am self-employed. my workers allways worked 9-5 5 days a week.
I work 8-16. picking the kids from kindergarten, staying with them till they drop on their beds.
And then.......the laptop cover opens up, and its showtime: 4-5 more hours till I drop my head on the keyboard.
5 hours later I wake up cursing the moment I went to study architecture.

I am never paid overtime....nor do I take vacations.
My only relief is reading this forum like now (22:19 PM wife sleeping next to me on sofa, blond head on my shoulder)

funny how diverse the working environments are so far. I think the size and situation from where everyone works has a major play in that.

My firm's normal hours are 8-6 (9 hour days) and a half day on Friday (they give you the freedom of an hour either way of coming in). We have now shifted to our summer hours of 4 10 hour days, with having Fridays off. It is the first time I have worked these kind of hours and I really enjoy having that extra half day to day off... makes a big difference. Of course there are those times that the work has to be done and more hours are required.

I think we talked about this some time ago...
but 8-5 regular then 15-20 side stuff.

I work in a relatively small office with 9 people in total. We have heaps of work on the books and work from 8 to 5 with 1 hour for lunch so 40 hours a week. We have a fantastic office environment which is extremely relaxed.....no shoes even....but this still gets the work done in a timely fashion and with award winning results.

Compare this with the job I left in the UK in a 60 person office which was 9 to 5, 1/2 hour lunch and pretty much expected to work late due to the incompetent people you were working with. Working weekends sometimes, again due to other people's slackness. I love it here in Australia and don't think I'll ever go back :)

Australian "normal" hours are 37.5.

Well we're really normal then! ;)

Its 9- 5:30 here with an hour for lunch, We're a small practice 8-10 people, but our boss ensures we get our lunch by putting on the answering machine during lunch, so we actually get a full hour.

8-6 doesnt sound that bad, although the extra half day sounds a bit much on top of that!

my hours have ranged all over the board. my first job when i was a 1st year arch student, i worked in a traditional residential firm and typically worked 50-60 hour weeks.

my second job, which was for a big commercial firm i typically did 40-45, but when i was working on the project we had in dubai, 80-90 hours weeks were common.

now having graduated with my undergrad and having a 'steady' job our hours are generally 8.30-18.00 or so. i typically wil put in an extra 3-10 hours per week, with spikes for a few weeks straight at 70-80 total. from my experience and my friends experience (at least here in the US) you typically work 40-50 hours with spikes up from there. i did have 1 friend who worked upwards of 140 hours one week.

now being payed for that "extra" time is another thing. if you knowingly signed up for a 50 hour week and get payed for that...then Id say you are cheating your boss by playing video games on those 6th days. but if you signed up for 40 hours and are getting payed for the 50, then id say either you live with it or you dont. if you signed up for the 40 and are NOT getting payed for the 50, then Id say either suck it up if it is a good experience or go someplace else.

hey wizum do you work at tvs? that sounds a lot like their normal hours...

my hours have ranged all over the board. my first job when i was a 1st year arch student, i worked in a traditional residential firm and typically worked 50-60 hour weeks.

my second job, which was for a big commercial firm i typically did 40-45, but when i was working on the project we had in dubai, 80-90 hours weeks were common.

now having graduated with my undergrad and having a 'steady' job our hours are generally 8.30-18.00 or so. i typically wil put in an extra 3-10 hours per week, with spikes for a few weeks straight at 70-80 total. from my experience and my friends experience (at least here in the US) you typically work 40-50 hours with spikes up from there. i did have 1 friend who worked upwards of 140 hours one week.

now being payed for that "extra" time is another thing. if you knowingly signed up for a 50 hour week and get payed for that...then Id say you are cheating your boss by playing video games on those 6th days. but if you signed up for 40 hours and are getting payed for the 50, then id say either you live with it or you dont. if you signed up for the 40 and are NOT getting payed for the 50, then Id say either suck it up if it is a good experience or go someplace else.

hey wizum do you work at tvs? that sounds a lot like their normal hours...

Sweet... another Atlantan on PPB :D

Nope, no TVS for me. I do know a few people over there though. I'm working for a satellite office for a firm based out of Destin Florida. We are 5 strong, principal not included, and we have a very comfortable situation. It is very "hands off" and we are given a lot of room to design when those opportunities arise. I used to work up in the burbs for a firm called CDH.

Overall I have been very lucky and have had positions and jobs that have allowed me to not have to work crazy hours like some of you in here. I have used that time though to expand on several hobbies like photography. That has been a enriching experience, and I give big kudos for several on PPB for giving me tips and really getting me excited about the world of photograhphy (sorry, getting OT there :))

8-5:30 with hour lunch, and 1/2 day Friday every second Friday.
But when you are a couple of days from a submission its not unusual to work an addional couple of hours.

the main thingis not to get into a situation when every week you are staying late.


Stephen Holl made a good point during an interview with Charlie Rose, he said now that he has an office in China his projects run 24 hours a day, the office in New York is closing for the evening when the office in China is opening for the morning.

Hours of operation are 8-4:30 5 days a week. Right now I am working 7:00 to 4:00 and banking a half hour everyday towards additional holidays. Right now 3 weeks holidays per year. Standard work week consists of 37.5 hours, but I am currently working 40 hours. Don't do the weekend thing anymore as it only promotes the fact that we made a ridiculous deadline by working weekends. I would rather not make the deadline and have our senior management realize that they under estimated the scope of work or the capacity of the employees on the job. This is the only way they will ever learn as they seldom recognize the extra effort and only focus on the outcome. They are flexible in the working hours but only if you are responsible.

I am always bit late for the good threads.;)

I worked in 10 companies in Dubai during the last 6 years.One reason for changing the jobs is the time factor.

Some of the employers do take a good advantage of their workers here.Some of them just to excercise their control over their employees.

Some owners "POP" in the exact last hour of the office & demand attention & quite "CALMLY" start their day's work & expect the office to continue till the late hours of the night!!:eek::(:mad:

I do understand that our jobs are perfomance based ,But time has to be respected right?

Some owners "POP" in the exact last hour of the office & demand attention & quite "CALMLY" start their day's work & expect the office to continue till the late hours of the night!!:eek::(:mad:


The same here. I had a boss that did that all day....... he had removed the " time counting machine " (I lack the English term), to avoid giving the employees the hard copy evidence of it. That might put him in trouble...

oh marvelous world....

Im on 830 - 530 official. Though never have the chance to go home on time. Too much work not enough staff.

Don't get me wrong.
I do love to work, and most of the times I take extra working hours with pleasure. :) And in this profession... extra hours comes with the territory. But some working schemes are greatly unfair. Sometimes you give all you got... and no return. And then it becomes a frustrated process with no joy. Fortunately I only had a couple of experiences like that.

I do believe (in a fairly naive way), that you really love what you do.... you never work (in the hard sense of the term) another day in your life. That will reflect also in the quality of your work. A passionate hard work project, always pays..

I turn up when I get there, and leave when I walk out the door. I can take my work home - as long as I do my 40 hours (and I usually do about 42). If I didn't have a family I'd probably do about 60 - 'cause if you don't love architecture you should get a real job :)

As far as the first post is concerned - if I were in that position I would refer to my employment contract to understand what was expected of me. If I signed the piece of paper saying I would work 40 hours a week, then I would have no qualms about only working 40 hours...if I was being continually over worked with no recompense.

But...I'm not in that situation so can't say with finality.

I choose this field because All the basic requirements for this field are my hobbies.I do like to work hard ,without restrictions of time but Hate being bullied by the companies for their own profit:no no no:

there's also a time for play, fishing, archery, kids, drinking, art, talking, family, and believe it or not, just sitting and sometimes doing nothing.


Are you hiring tdmc? Happy to relocate :D

Are you hiring tdmc? Happy to relocate :D

DITOOO!!!! need a intern ? :)

Honestly also if you wanted a job with normal hours...you should have picked a different career.

you guys make some really good points. maybe i am in the wrong position, and maybe i am cheating my boss by screwing around on the 6th day. it's tough work.

I stopped being a boss about 4 years ago.
In the closing days of that adventure I had a "new" partner who thought "management by panic and pressure" was just fine.
I now am self employed and only have myself to worry about - much more fun, but it is a result of doing the long miles for many years.er employee
Short answer - not employing (ha ha) but would be tempted with the right people!

the key - employer or employee - good people, good attitudes

My hours are a little different to most, but then I'm not an architect (although these days I spend most of my time acting as one). Insane hours are becoming more and more standard in many industries. For instance, my sister has averaged a 70hr week for the last five years, across 4 different jobs in three countries.

I work from 8:30am to 4:00pm with a 30 minute lunch. Every minute I work past 4pm goes into 'flexitime'. I usually work to 5:00pm each day, which results in a eight and a half day fortnight.

M-F, 8AM-5PM (w/hour lunch)

Right now, clocking overtime is discouraged. If there is a deadline that requires additional hours, so be it, but take time off the next week to nullify that extra time.

i feel im one of the most screw

i work in a very small firm (we are a 6 people office) and i work monday to friday from 9:00 to 8:00 with a two hour break from 2 to 4 and sometimes we work on saturdays (like twice a moth from 9 a 1 depending on the amount of work we have)

no, we both work the same amount of hours because you get a 2 hour lunch break whereas i get 1 hour.

good news update: we managed to cancel the 6th day of work twice a month. (one week we come in the weekend, the other week we don't).
it makes such a big difference in your life and work when you have a full weekend to chill and blaze up.

which brings me to my follow up question: which architect's smoke weed or hash during off hours?

I was doing it in my Uni years but now it makes me really tense instead of relaxed so I quited. And the beer makes me sleepy so it is a complete disaster :( Maybe I should start taking some chinese herbs or smth.

getting a little high makes me relaxed and as a result i work a lot better.

i work the usual 9-5.30 with 45 min lunch time, was fine when i first started at this company but once bigger projects starts taking off, it's hard to get things done in their usual manner. 2/3 of my company has fresh grads and it hard to train while rushing deadlines. good thing my employer ensures fridge is well stock up with beer - 5.30 is now beer o'clock :) the stress is still under control............

Whatever hours you may have, its better than the hours during collegiate days, when you sit there during studio as you slowly begin to accept that you wont see a bed or a pillow for the next few weeks!

I run the "Design department" in our Firm, and work on an average 40 hours a week, 8.00 till 17.00 with knock off at 14.00 on Fridays, in my contract I have a 5% overtime rule, all other overtime is paid.
If needed I will do every thing to meet deadlines and work through the nights, this is not a regular thing proberbly due to my "Time Manegement" system.
Make shure that you are in a constant state of Education, always looking for new Materials, energy, building methods.... etc. read alot.....

and dont forget "The lagest piece of Art is a Building" !!

Whatever hours you may have, its better than the hours during collegiate days, when you sit there during studio as you slowly begin to accept that you wont see a bed or a pillow for the next few weeks!


very true.

Whatever hours you may have, its better than the hours during collegiate days, when you sit there during studio as you slowly begin to accept that you wont see a bed or a pillow for the next few weeks!

I never had that issue. I used to take my sleep bag and a pillow along everyday at the University. :D:D

Its not uncommon when i go down to the studio on the ealry morning hours and i see a few individuals passed out on scraps of left over cardboard from site models laid out on the floor to catch some z's!