Here's a situation that has occured and has been a little upsetting - just looking for a little feedback and comment.

Dealing with new clients, husband and wife. looked at a couple of properties for them - development potential. They finally found one they liked and we proceeded. Written agreement to provide services. These are first time developers.
Because they paid so much for the property they want to develop three houses, not two. Three is tight, but it can work, and comply with relevant regs.

I put together a scheme, submitted it to the local authority. They came back with further information requirements (some of which was a bit of a joke, and about which they have since backed down/changed their mind)

Long story I know. Council suggested changes, i work out some options, sent it all off to the client at no additional charge, but with the note from the Council requiring more information (which would mean additional costs)

Two very heated/agressive phone calls later from the client - really bad and mis-information/accusations, and I'm ready to pull the pin.

I have a think about it and decide I don't want to/can't work with the client any longer so package up all I've done, including the suggested changes to satisfy the Council and tell them that they can get someone else to look after it from here. The solution is there - it should be easy from her on in.

So my question - is what I did reasonable, or should I have suffered in silence and just kept working for them? When should one walk away from a project? Is it fair to do so?:bang head

you should have billed them for additional costs... but that depends what you have agreed on in your 'client-architect agreement' (ie, if it was open-ended)

sounds like they are a pain in the backside and if that's the attitude, give them what they have paid for (not the extra work you have done for free) and set them on their way i'd say...

Yeah, its a sad situation, you did the work in almost "good faith", its hard but sometimes you have to just inform the client that to continue means more work. They can then decide to go ahead or to terminate (even look for another architect) but you should always inform the client if further costs will be incurred.

How much more joy can there be in it after words like that? My experience is that once the trust is gone it is always a struggle. Tell them they need to find some one else unless you need the money and are willing to bite your lip.

I guess I'm a little sad about the situation - it doesn't happen often - but as WilsonMetry says - how much more joy can there be in it after that- kind of sums up my feelings. I also suspect that there will be trouble/difficulty all the way through,given their attitude and way of dealing with things.

I guess I'm a little sad about the situation - it doesn't happen often - but as WilsonMetry says - how much more joy can there be in it after that- kind of sums up my feelings. I also suspect that there will be trouble/difficulty all the way through,given their attitude and way of dealing with things.

I think you made the right decision. These things never improve, they only seem to get worse as time goes on. You would have been fighting over your fees for the duration of the project.

When a client doesn't see the value in your services, that is a great time to get out. (if one can afford to do so)

Two very heated/agressive phone calls later from the client - really bad and mis-information/accusations, and I'm ready to pull the pin.
What exactly were they griping about, if you don't mind me asking?

As first time developers they probably weren't aware of the processes involved but I assume you 'educated' them initially and as development proceeded.

brian - a combination of additional cost, further "external" services eg landscape design, no guarantee at outcome, perceived delay, and a certain nervousness about the Council's requirements/suggestions
This occured at a relatively early stage - no problems until the Council wanted further information and an alternative layout. And believe me the phone calls were not nice, and as a few days have passed I'm much more comfortable with my decision - although am waiting for them to blow up when they realise that I'm not doing any more for them

Their budget must have been pretty thread-bare to start off with if they're going to freak out at the first 'potential' financial setback. Sounds like they don't have the nerve required for speculative property development.

yep, and that's damned hard to explain (especially when they don't want to listen). They see the profit, but not the risk (not that there was much - I'd sorted it all out!)

As long as your reacted in a professional manor, I think that you did the right thing. You may have even possibly saved a colleague from having this same experience with this client. Perhaps the client may see that what they were doing/expecting was unreasonable and required a second opinion/look at things. It is a process and not as simple as balancing a check book. Perhaps they need a better accountant.

Hopefully some good will come of this, both on your part and theirs.

As one of my mentors put it "It is what it is, and now we move forward."

Sounds like they don't have the nerve required for speculative property development.

That would be my guess also.

Sorry to hear about your "Clients from H*ll". It's always disheartening to do a good job and watch out for the interests of the client, only to have them misunderstand, or worse, not care about what it is you're doing for them.

I think you absolutely did the right thing. If they were accusing you of trying to gouge them financially, that's probably because that is what they would have done. It would have only gotten worse.

We've found, at our office, that teaching a first timer can be expensive and very stressful, for both parties. Their expectations are very different from reality.

We have a project that started out with no real budget analysis from the developers point of view. They wanted the world and had no idea what was available to them at what price, or what would sell in this market. We had a real heart to heart with them about the scope of work, quality of construction, costs that are a given (site, property, fees, expected cost per s.f., etc) so they can understand what they are capable of getting as a product. It was a tough conversation. Thankfuly, we got into this discussion before we went too far. They have been real quiet lately. haven't heard from them in a month or so since the meeting. We probably lost them on this project. But, the other option was to complete drawings and services that would produce an unviable product. Then they would have been pissed. The short of it, is client need to be taught, just like us, about the stuff they are getting into and the value of our services.
Good Luck to you tdmc. I think that you did the right thing. That's all that you can do.

I like it how I've seen good professionals do it.

"I'm sorry, but I do not like to raise my voice."

"I'm trying my best to get council approval, but I can't do it without the payment, it's just not possible."

"I'm trying my best to get the drawings sorted out for you. It's all ready in fact, I simply need to print out the drawings for you, however, the printers I use require payment upfront. I can't print when I don't have the cash now can I?"

Client : "About those drawings, where are they?"
Architect : "Hmmm... I need to be professional about this. As long as I've been working in this industry, I've only known one thing, and that is that we can only release drawings when we've been paid."

spadestick - they got the drawings of suggested changes at no charge. The Council asked for a plan of survey and landscape plan - I got quotes for them. These guys have been supported all the way through, believe me.
There's just more to do now and they don't want to pay more (and were abusive)

Fellow PPB people, thanks for your comments. The event has been upsetting, even for a well experienced old dinosaur like me. Nice to have your support and "independent" views/comments - Thanks

The event has been upsetting, even for a well experienced old dinosaur like me.
Well, dinosaurs ruled the planet for a VERY long time. :P

"I think better when I am paid" is MY motto.......

All the wise members above are right IMHO but there is one thing that is un-clear:

You are having a web brainstorming, but aren't THEY on a tight schedule? you are in a better position. they are in a hurry. The mortgage probably costs them a fortune in the meantime, no?

I would ask for payment and wait.......you have the time. they don't

Forget the project and move on to the next. The next client might be so good that he becomes a friend.
Happend to me last year after a sucker project like yours.

...................They wanted the world and had no idea what was available to them at what price, or what would sell in this market. We had a real heart to heart with them about the scope of work, quality of construction, costs that are a given (site, property, fees, expected cost per s.f., etc) so they can understand what they are capable of getting as a product. It was a tough conversation. Thankfuly, we got into this discussion before we went too far. They have been real quiet lately. haven't heard from them in a month or so since the meeting. We probably lost them on this project. ................

ryarch-
This is a good and relevant point. Sometimes certain inexperienced clients become embarrassed or are offended by their own ignorance and equate the architect, in trying to educate them, with this negative feeling. They are embarrassed or pissed or whatever, and choose to move on. I've seen it happen. Now they go to the next guy and they feel like they now know it all. :confused:

We deal a lot with Planning Issues (ie demands from local authorities) and have made it a policy to advise clients that, because we can never estimate what the demands are (and in our situation the goal posts seem to be moving as development accelerates), or how much time it will take to satisfy these, and that we will address these on a sliding fee scale, where we advise a minimum and maximum anticipated fee. Usually the maximum is well above what it will take to accomplish the job. Then we time track.
Also we advise up front that the local authorities may require other professional involvement, which could include any or all of: Surveyor, Geotechnical Engineer, Biologist, etc and that these fees are not a part of the contract.
We do offer to act as the liaison with the other professionals but at a fee.

We also had a few tough experiences leading up to the decision to implement these actions. It may have lost us a bit of work, but we have had no further situations like the one you describe.
I think the fact of your concern shows your ethics and standards are in the right place. Chalk this one up and move on.

It's been great to get feedback - and more so that the feedback is consistent. I know I've done the right thing (and moved on) but it's also great to be able to touch base and get the opinion of others. Sometimes being a little distant can give better insight. In this particular case it seems that we speak pretty mch as one

Thanks to all