Project
We (me and my family) are planning to make a Tomb For my mother who passed away a few months back.
.
Location
In our church grave yard in southernmost part of India.

Type of Project
Personal (?)

Design Parameters
The Church will allot an area of 90cm x 200cm of open land in the church graveyard. My family wants to have an elegant tomb which can symbolically represent my moms character. My family members will visit the tomb three to four times in a year and offer flowers and candles.

Design Approach
I conceived the tomb as transparent glass (reflecting my mom’s nature of simplicity and transparency) floating weightlessly over a white surface signifying the eternal sleep and a cross to symbolize the religion, embedded on to the glass.

Tools/Programs
Pencil sketch, Sketch up, Photoshop

Comments pls

First of all, I would like to say that I am sorry for your loss.

I like the design. I worry about keeping it clean though. Do you think this would be a problem? Horizontal glass tends to water-spot.

I would be interested to see the connection to the ground. I kind of imagine a reveal that would give the memorial the feeling of floating above the ground.

Attaching the cross section
I kind of imagine a reveal that would give the memorial the feeling of floating above the ground.
thanks sayer. Can u make the 'reveal' concept lil more clear?

On what some people may feel is a "morbid" nature, I personally love visiting cemetaries/grave yards. They are typically quiet and reflective places. That being said, I love your concept but I am concerned about its durability. I'm uncertain if I've ever seen a tomb, with glass, that has resisted the elements of time over long periods of time. That being said, you may wish to further detail the stone to last for the generations after yourself and your own family passes. I can't count the number of stones that no longer have relatives around that remember the person, yet its the stones that carry on their story. A tomb/stone without a story (perhaps warn away in time) I always find a bit depressing as it will be difficult to place that person's place (or existance) in this world without it.

Attaching the cross section

thanks sayer. Can u make the 'reveal' concept lil more clear?

Now that I see the section, I think you are doing what I was suggesting.

First of all I am also sorry for your loss.

As for the glass top, I have always been interested in the use of peg mounted glass like your design. Although, I have always thought it would be cool to find a thick 1" or 1 1/2" piece of sandblasted glass. Sandblasted so much so that it looked like a piece of volcanic glass washed in the ocean for years. The corners would be rounded so smooth that the piece of glass would appear more like stone than glass. As for the lettering perhaps those could be clear.
I have never seen glass used this way before, but would be interested in finding out more information if someone else has.....

Hi Sunilarch. I too am sorry for your loss.

Can you explain your choice of materials as they are not common in this type of project.

Sunilarch, the passing of a loved on is always difficult - my condolences.

I'm impressed by the idea of the "project" - honouring a loved one and memory...

A few thoughts -
The space between the marble and the glass will deteriorate - dirt water etc.
The marble will fade from the gleaming white at first as it weathers.

You haven't designed a place to take the flowers and candles - perhaps incorporate something rather than allowing them to be place on top, or at the side - the design of this element requires care as well - so that it doesn't look "empty" when the candles or flowers have finished.

Will the glass be a temptation to vandals?

will the writing on the glass be legible? and easy to read? especially if it casts a shadow beneath it...

I like the "look" of what you have designed, but wonder about how it will fare in the open weather.

Mate I'm one of those soft feely ones and can't help but have my eyes well reading your post, sorry to hear of your loss. The one thing that happens to us more and more as we get older is seeing the passing of those around us we love!

Like the others have suggested I would have concerns, though I love the simplicity of your design. I worry about the accumulation of dirt and debris in the void under the glass, the maintenance of the glass itself and the chance of vandalism.

There is a very large cemetary upon the cliff top close to Sydney's Bondi. It was reported only last week the council aim to upgrade the pathway that rings the cliff top as people are shortcutting through the cemetary due to the heavy foot traffic on the narrow path. The other problem has been the boot campers using the headstones for various workouts leading to their destruction. So vandalism sometims comes from those without intent.

My suggestion toward your design would be to bring the text to the bottom portion so it can be read without such influence of reflection due to the low glancing angle.

I would ask is the glass needed. Would a bronze cross affixed or embedded achieve the same simplicity without the ongoing concerns myself and others have raised. You have to remember these fixtures may be here long long after both you and I are gone!

Mate I'd also suggest you check the mix of stainless steel and aluminium for bi-metal corrosion.

Best regards to you, your family and close friends.

Richard

First I have to say that me too, I am very sorry for your loss of a family member.
I was somewhat struck by your post, as I had to witness within the last 6 month the losses of several close family members as well as a number of close friends in my boyfriends family. So I got to reflect a lot about death and illnesses.

What some mentioned is the concern that the construction would loose its 'impeccability' with time. Maybe it would be possible to 'allow' the corrosion, or better to 'lead' it.
What always impressed me most in cemeteries were the sections where the very old tombs once were. Those time-beaten stones, that tell a story of peace and rest. Humans often want to behold the memories of their beloved, i.e. by installing photographs on a stone, or the surface of a tomb that looks like untouched for ages. Yet, the capability of the human to forget, and the corrosion of the memories is what allows our beloved to be let in their deserved peace.

I would like to stress the possibility to worship the mother with flowers and candles by the generation that has a chance of actively remembering her, while the tomb has the chance to corrode with pride and with time.


There are many ways of involving glass, and I like the thought of the transparency referring to your mothers character. Have you ever thougt about enamel or melted glass?
Enamel i.e. over a cross made of copper will protect it for a certain time untill little cracks in th surface allows water to get in and change the color of the metal (to green, black..)

Also could you think about an 'inlay' of white marble as a symbol, maybe covered with glass?




I hope my writing is not too confused, it's a pretty emotional topic though...

My condolences, sunilarch.
If glass is needed to symbolize transparacy, could it be in blockform rather than sheetglass?
The tomb has to withstand time gracefully, I think, it can corrode or rust, collect moss, but broken.
Your current design will be beautiful as a new tomb, but you should count in time element
and design something ages gracefully. And how it ages has a lot to do with its surroundings.
In dry climate metal can be used extensively, in humid climate you can expect moss to cover
the stone in time. I would recommend you to go see the cemetary once again and see
how various materials age in that particular climate.

Thanks for all for the concern everyone showed in my mom’s demise, and also about the post. To major issues pointed out are:-
1. Durability of Glass
2. Security
3. Maintenance

Durability

Nothing is ever lasting. When we went for a very low maintenance solution I ended up in the Regular stone slab option which is not what I want to give to my mother who loved to see me as a designer and took all the pain to fulfill all my insane wishes while I was in the Arch. College!

So the next logical option for me is to find a low maintenance design. The steps taken for that are:-

1. To use Small pieces of glass (90x30cm) this could be 12mm or 20mm thick. Even if somebody breaks it deliberately, we can replace it in minimal cost.

2. Use white marble (which is cheap here, approx $10 per Sq.m.) as a base
Material.

Other important thing I missed to state in the design brief is that, in the most unfortunate even of death of any of my family member, the body will be buried in the same tomb by removing the top. So I think going for an option of reusability is better than a permanent solution.

About the security and vandalism the grave yard in the middle of a populated area and it is visually open to the highly populated neighborhood. Hope it will help to add to the security factor.

If some one can point out some good details to fix the glass as shown in the design, it will be a great help.

Sunilarch, sorry for your loss.

I agree with the concerns about durability, security, and maintenance -- but since you are looking for a solution that is out of the ordinary then I think you should go for it. The trick will be in detailing it properly to achieve a good and lasting result.

Glass is an extremely hard material, so it's possible to up the thickness and use glass that is both laminated and hardened to minimize risk of breakage. I like the 4 pieces design and think it will work better than reducing the glass sizes and having many pieces. The section only shows connections to the marble top at the edges, but I think the cross needs to be connected down to the marble top as well to reduce the strain on the glass. Talk to a glass supplier, they can calculate the thickness of the glass needed, I'd guess a minimum 10+10mm laminated and hardened. It should tolerate to be stood and sat upon.

Maintenence and Cleaning: The glass will get dirty (so do tombstones), will you have access to water for cleaning when visiting? Clearing graves is a tradition in some places, so in this case cleaning the glass could also be a part of your visits. Pilkington has a 'self cleaning' glass layer, but I'm not sure how much that would help in a horizontal placement. Make sure you can get a hand in under the glass to clean from below as well. If you do visit 3-4 times a year then you ought to be able to keep it clean, it's a commitment... Perhaps a frosted glass, or glass with a diffusing layer of laminate would look 'cleaner' if you can't see the dirt below the glass.

sunilarch, again i'm sorry for you loss. i was moved by this post, when i first saw this i thought of Adolf Loos and the simplicity in his memorial stone, so i quickly sketched up the attached idea. keeping in mind the durability & longevity of a simple cut stone, and added an simple built in aluminum vase. i hope you don't mind.

after reading your comments and thinking of how to include the glass into it with a place for names/ history if others are put into the tomb as well. i came up with this version.

the more i think about your project the more i think of 15 years ago when i lost my father. upon losing a parent one begins to think clearly about who they are in the world and what they would like to do with their life. i think in many ways this project embodies that period of adjustment for you as well. the more i think about it, this project doesn't need any criticisms or adjustments from us. i believe it's something that you must do by yourself and do it your own way. all the little problems that you come upon doing it exactly the way you've designed it will make it all the more meaningful upon completing it.

thank you for posting and good luck.

Hi cheffy, thanks a lot for the effort and time u had taken to review my design. The message u had written is exactly what I was feeling inside. I was really skeptical to post this in PPB thinking about the relevance of my post to me and to others. But post like yours and others are forcing me to think that it would have been a mistake if I haven’t posted the concept in PPB.

Sunilarch, i'm grateful that you've posted this. It's excellent work and pertains to everyone of us on the deepest levels. one thing i would have to disagree about that you said "nothing is everlasting". i think you know down deep that's not true... you see they will forever live on inside you. just as you will in your children. that's what makes us immortal. Carry on.

Looking at cheffey's post i thought of the idea of the provision for the flowers and candles.
To place flowers i think 4 (representing four members of my family) 8cm dia holes in the glass (instead of tube in cheffys post, which will pose cleaning issues)will work. And to place the candles im going to leave a margin of 30cm at the bottom of the tomb. Comments pls..

Sorry for your loss Sunilarch.

I'm remember once reading a book by Adrian Stokes called 'the Stones of Rimini'. He surmised, if I recall correctly that igneous stone (granites) are the stone of death and sedimentary stone (limestone) the stone of life. Igneous stones being formed by fire and sedimentary stones by organic matter. Which is one reason why I assume that marble is commonly used as gravestones. He also reckoned that adding water to sedimentary stone brings it life. Which is why we polish it I suppose.

I wonder if by using water in lieu of glass (formed by fire) something along the lines of Cheffeys initial elegant design could catch the monsoon rains and provide the transparency you are after. The dry months a beautiful object. It would change and weather over time. Bit like life really.

Cheffey is right however, in that the process of getting this done and it must be your done way will make it all the more powerful for you.

SunilArch, my deepest condolences to you and your family, mothers are the gems of life, loosing one's would of the most difficult moments in life.

I'm in the midst of designing my parish renovations and have been pondering the meaning of it all, so i must thank your generosity in posting your design project, it gave me a lot to chew on.

On your last design, i'd like to comment that candles on white marble won't be an easy thing to maintain. I've seen my grandparents' tombstone get stained by molten wax over time. If at all, a piece of glass should be placed there, to receive the wax. Or a piece of steel, if you're going to use that. Or a beveled edge of marble that doesn't form part of the main block, so that should it get stained, it won't look as though the tomb's been dirtied.

As for the glass pieces, could they be somehow embedded into the stone, so that they're less vulnerable? It'll be like saying, simplicity and transparency is always rooted in solid strength and sturdiness.

I liked the thickness of cheffey's block, it looks solid, serious and timeless with dignity and pride.

The beauty in tombstone design is in the depth of meaning belying the simplicity of the graceful design and the love that goes into it.

All the best and God bless.

After reading frenchstick's post, i was thinking of adding water instead of glass(which gives me transparency effect), Cos our place will get rain for six months in a year. The water is added by making two endless pools on the opposite quadrants.Another good part i feel is the shallow water pool can used to float flowers and candles. To cover the stone joints inside the pool i thought of adding pebbles. Please give me feedback whether im going on right track or not..

maintenance issue? Water will speed up the staining of the stone, won't it? Algae growth, mosquito larvae, fungus on the pebbles? etc.....

after reading your comments and thinking of how to include the glass into it with a place for names/ history if others are put into the tomb as well. i came up with this version.

the more i think about your project the more i think of 15 years ago when i lost my father. upon losing a parent one begins to think clearly about who they are in the world and what they would like to do with their life. i think in many ways this project embodies that period of adjustment for you as well. the more i think about it, this project doesn't need any criticisms or adjustments from us. i believe it's something that you must do by yourself and do it your own way. all the little problems that you come upon doing it exactly the way you've designed it will make it all the more meaningful upon completing it.

thank you for posting and good luck.

In my country, holes that "serves" as vase are a no no. Due to the breeding of aedes mosquitoes. I like how you magically edit the tomb.

The water idea is intruiging as it is a symbol of infinity and purity. I wonder about the times when there is no rain. Pebbles do not convince me in this case, I suggest a smooth texture to the stone in the 'basins' as well. I think it would support the mirror effect.
Maybe however the basins could be executed in polished steel and the cross in glass?

Please forgive the bad quality. (My first go at Indigo). The candle or oil lamp has a glass cover.

with and without water

without water

Maybe however the basins could be executed in polished steel and the cross in glass?
Thanks for the renderings sigue. Those are inspiring. I don’t know whether I want the idea of steel basin. Have a look at the revised post and comment pls.

Sunil, with your revised post, the wedge'll end up filled with water after a downpour anyway.

Is the wedge shape significant in some way? It sort of hollows out the block, in such a way that the block loses its solid timeless feel.

I was also wondering about the durability of the polished surface under water. Would granite be more resilient than marble in terms of keeping its surface polish? I've seen in my country, granite tombs outshine marble ones. Marble tombstones get rougher by the year. Just a thought.

Thanks for the renderings sigue. Those are inspiring. I don’t know whether I want the idea of steel basin. Have a look at the revised post and comment pls.
The reason for choosing the basin in steel and cross in glass was to reinterpret your choice of materials. The 'lightweightedness' of the polished (mirror finish) steel basin would contrast the heavy solid stone. The depth in the basin needn't be more than a few centimetres. I'm wondering how often it would be filled enough to produce the rippled mirror effect.

Sunil

As much I applaud your interpretation through the use of glass or water I would always hold my concerns toward the durability, cleanliness and maintenance of such.

I look at and consider your latest design and wonder if the transparency created by the framed cross may enable your interpretation.

Thanks richard, I really value your points... and looking at your design i had done some modifications to my previous design, Comments please..

Mate, as I said I'll still echo those concerns!

I need to suggest one word of caution. If the cross is to be of stainless steel it will still evetually rust. I'd ensure in any design you consider some tolerances to allow any expansion due to rust to not split or fracture the block. Just something to consider in any incarnation of your design.

I've seen a gal steel sheet cabinet (fuse box) rust and push and shear from it's bedding course a full height 4m wide brick panel

Hope you don't mind my interpretation of your concept, sunilarch.
My concerns are;
Durability, transparancy, reflections, simplicity of construction,
Materials;
a stainless steel cross, granite base, four glass objects

My other take would be like Richard's post #32, but with four separate
stone slabs and a cross as a void in between.
In that case four stone slabs represent four members of your family
(therefore they have to be separate), the void inbetween of course representing your mother.

...and this is what I mean.

Mate, as I said I'll still echo those concerns!

I need to suggest one word of caution. If the cross is to be of stainless steel it will still evetually rust. I'd ensure in any design you consider some tolerances to allow any expansion due to rust to not split or fracture the block. Just something to consider in any incarnation of your design.

I've seen a gal steel sheet cabinet (fuse box) rust and push and shear from it's bedding course a full height 4m wide brick panel

Dear Richard, in my last post #33 I don’t have any steel elements! The cross is entirely done in 12mm Glass (which will be fixed to the stone using silicon glue)

Takesh,
Hope you don't mind my interpretation of your concept, sunilarch.
Im so glad to see responses from experienced guys like you and others which is helping me to optimize the design.

I’m totally agreed with your last post and only thing I want more is the water element!

In temples in south India we have a feature near the temple entrance, which is a rough black granite stone block (60x90cm max) with a small niche at the top where water is filled and fresh flowers will be put.

I think the water and glass intersections will look nice. Pls comment.

I really like where you have taken this. (as of post #33) I personally don't care for the large granite surround, I think it takes away from the power and simplictiy of the monument. If you need granite I think that I would keep it minimal. When I saw the image of your latest design I thought that the cross was made of metal with a patina like copper or brass, which I really liked. A metal like that is going to get better with age which I don't think is true of the glass.

Sunil

I truly hope you don't take any offence toward our offerings of interpretation of your design.

I still suffer myself of the loss of a partner some years ago and this thread brings much up for me (please everyone we are addressing sunil here not me). The tribute I made toward here upon passing ' The love you gave filled my heart till it overflowed and I too had much to give. '

I have interporated this into your design and a want for a reflective / transparent surface. Here the water fills the cross and overflows.

The metallic inlay representing the linage left under your mother of which you are all a part.

My concerns with the tapered side pool was that of the staining that may or more likely will occur with time. Here it is aimed to add evenly to the feature and depth of the cross.

incorporating the idea of using glass and stone without necessarily using water, here is my attempt.

using laminated layers of glass to form the crucifix flush with the stone with metal inlaid characters. it should have a beautiful depth and shimmer much like water intended to be, without all the mess.

and the skp (you really need to see the file to get a better understanding of the visual effects)

Thanks Richard and swank. I had made another option.., Pls comment

image

Mate for my thinking you need to consider the longevity of this structure, and as you suggested in one of your posts the future repositioning of the top.

I have liked all of your options but can see inherant problems with most in regards to the long term prospect of any long term preforming as originally intended.

Sunilarch, my condolences for your loss.
I've been reading this thread for a while but unfortunately I haven't had any time to leave my oppinion. At this point I feel excellent comments and suggestions were made already, much better than I could have done.
Nevertheless, besides durability and ease of maintenance, you should consider how the tomb will look when it starts to deteriorate and not have any maintenance at all, because that's something that is bound to happen. What I mean with this is that the tomb will last longer than the generations that will take care of it (take the roman tombstones, for example), and continue to "speak" of the one it pays hommage to for many centuries.
The proposals shown by Richard, Takesh or Swank-e in posts 32, 36 and 40, respectively, seem excellent in their simplicity and their ability to age with dignity.
My best wishes to you.

incorporating the idea of using glass and stone without necessarily using water, here is my attempt.

using laminated layers of glass to form the crucifix flush with the stone with metal inlaid characters. it should have a beautiful depth and shimmer much like water intended to be, without all the mess.Excellent concept...the use of a blue tinted glass will give the "feel" of water.

I don't know about the blue tint, as I've only seen blue water in my blue painted pool or the caribbean sea. My fear is that it will look too artificial for water and even for glass. I would consider using it just transparent.

By the way, nice designs for you all, it's interesting how such a personal matter is treated by many different people from different cultures.

Richard i think your last attempt is beautiful, what a great way of putting those words into stone. :)

Richard i think your last attempt is beautiful, what a great way of putting those words into stone. :)

Thank you mate! Though I sort of wished today I hadn't revisited that post - darn:(

I'm certainly interested now though to hear from Sunil and what his final determination was!

Sunil? Hope you are doing well mate!

Hi Richard,
Thanks and im doing fine. Regarding the tomb, I did the post 33 version. It came out well and every one liked it especially my dad. Thanking all of you once again for the efforts and contributions in the design. :cheers:

sunil.. would you post some pics of the final design.. It would be nice to see what finally came out...

Hi chetan,

I havent got any pics but will try my level best(im in DXB rignt now!)