Architect/Developer

[lewisuk]

I've only ever designed one house for a client, but, from my limited experience, what i can imagine and what i have heard, it is incredibly frustrating to spend your waking life in design and then to have someone else (the client) forcing their taste upon you like an inhebriated fat sweaty european tourist forcing himself upon a thai child forced into prostitution.
Now I KNOW that part of being a good architect is being able to work with the client etc etc.. but even after only 5 years in the field, that, in practice, pisses me off something rotten.
I, want what is good and just, whilst they want what is next door but 'better'. And as a patron and defender of the arts and all things good and beautiful, I pose the question to you, why is the architect not the developer too?
I know many of us are fond of our mountain bikes but surely no one can deny it would be nice to be able to afford to replace them with a polluting 4 wheeled version, if we so desired? And more to the point, to work without the mtv cribs watching client?
Its not brains, i've never stumbled upon a developer with more brains than your average chimp let alone architect, so is it personality?
All those i have met in the trade are bullish, uncooth and falsely self assured. Traits which drawing ceiling tile layouts will draw out of you, traits which would never lead you into architecture in the first place.
Alsop tried it and went bust so i heard, but why is it not more commonplace?

[tdmc]

i've often wondered the same. There are some, but i think most find it difficult to take the risk involved in property development. Wierd i know, as an "older" practitioner I've made, over the years. millions of dollars for my client s through my ideas, dsign skills and knowledge - but it's damned hard to make that leap to doing the same for myself...maybe something about the psyche of architects?...or their access to "risk" funds...then best we (as a group) seem to do is make a damned good job of our own houses....

so if anyone has answers???? good question

[am_i_wry]

Its not impossible to do but its not far off it. Lets not pretend that there arent skills involved in developing. One needs to understand markets and thats something most architects struggle with. Development is about location, spec and marketing more than it is about design and where design comes in it has to be to support the above and to maximise return not to provide the best 'design' solution.

[WilsonMetry]

I have a friend, who is trained as an architect, but is now a full time developer. Dont know if it is the freedom and creative control he has but he is one of the happiest guys I know.

Another example is John Graham Jr. I worked for his firm (or more correctly, the firm that bought him out in 1986) for about 6 years. He was probably the richest architect I've met but it all came from his development side. He is credited by many to have conceptualized and developed the first auto-oriented indoor mall: Northgate Shopping Center in north Seattle in 1950 or so. He also was the architect of record for the Space Needle.

http://www.historylink.org/essays/ou...fm?file_id=140

http://www.emporis.com/en/cd/cm/?id=...seattle-wa-usa

[Chris Stewart]

Why aren't architects developers?

Look at your own opinion of them.
- "Its not brains, i've never stumbled upon a developer with more brains than your average chimp let alone architect, so is it personality?"


"I've only ever designed one house for a client, but, from my limited experience, what i can imagine and what i have heard, it is incredibly frustrating to spend your waking life in design and then to have someone else (the client) forcing their taste upon you like an inhebriated fat sweaty european tourist forcing himself upon a thai child forced into prostitution."

That's funny . It's their building they are paying for but they are forcing their taste on you?


Here is what another person wrote to me in a pm -

"Based on some of your comments that I have read, using the client as an excuse for limitations in the design...I think indeed, that you could open your mind. There is always a way to convince clients or to find clients that are worthwhile....maybe you need to open your mind a little and look outside of you local. "


With attitudes like these can there be any doubt as to why architects not only are not developers but the only markets they have a substantial part of are those where they are required by law. In my area for example I would guess they don't design more than one out of 500 houses or less.

As far as I can tell the average house is not even considered to be architecture so why would an architect want anything to do with them? Now that I think about it, I would guess the average architect did not even design and build their own house.

In the end I think it is much easier and safer to blame everyone else.

What's wrong with the built environment?
-Oh, it's those greedy dumb builders and those fat sweaty clients.

This coming from a person who has designed one house. -Congrats, you have created as much architecture in the past five years as I did last week.

-oops I forgot, you don't consider what I do to be architecture because it isn't modern or expensive or unusual or whatever


I just don't seem to understand the attitude I have seen from most architect types I have come across online.

[heavyweather]

Originally Posted by Chris Stewart

Why aren't architects developers?

Look at your own opinion of them.
- "Its not brains, i've never stumbled upon a developer with more brains than your average chimp let alone architect, so is it personality?"


"I've only ever designed one house for a client, but, from my limited experience, what i can imagine and what i have heard, it is incredibly frustrating to spend your waking life in design and then to have someone else (the client) forcing their taste upon you like an inhebriated fat sweaty european tourist forcing himself upon a thai child forced into prostitution."

That's funny . It's their building they are paying for but they are forcing their taste on you?


Here is what another person wrote to me in a pm -

"Based on some of your comments that I have read, using the client as an excuse for limitations in the design...I think indeed, that you could open your mind. There is always a way to convince clients or to find clients that are worthwhile....maybe you need to open your mind a little and look outside of you local. "


With attitudes like these can there be any doubt as to why architects not only are not developers but the only markets they have a substantial part of are those where they are required by law. In my area for example I would guess they don't design more than one out of 500 houses or less.

As far as I can tell the average house is not even considered to be architecture so why would an architect want anything to do with them? Now that I think about it, I would guess the average architect did not even design and build their own house.

In the end I think it is much easier and safer to blame everyone else.

What's wrong with the built environment?
-Oh, it's those greedy dumb builders and those fat sweaty clients.

This coming from a person who has designed one house. -Congrats, you have created as much architecture in the past five years as I did last week.

-oops I forgot, you don't consider what I do to be architecture because it isn't modern or expensive or unusual or whatever


I just don't seem to understand the attitude I have seen from most architect types I have come across online.

In my impression you are more a civil engineer with a license to sign your plans

The aim of some other architects is to become more of a building designer...just drawing things, letting the CAD monkeys do the rest...and some students build their models in late night shifts....

[lewisuk]

To be fair Chris, I do think you have a point in that architects do alienate themselves from potential clientel, obviously to their own detriment. But you also have to understand that the post was written in what was not an entirely serious tone and you really shouldn't get your knickers in a twist over these things.
I also have to admit to telling fibs, i have met some intelligent developers, but also some less than intelligent ones, the point i was trying to make was that what seems to seperate them from architects is their personality and attitude.
Thank you for the congratulations on my first house, its actually about to go in for planning at the moment but i'll send you pictures when it gets built Perhaps you could send me photographs of the architecture you created in the past week, or better still post it for all to see on here. I don't know if i'd consider it to be architecture or not without seing it, architecture to me is building design, building building is not always the same.
I'm actually working on my second at the moment which is speculative student housing working with a disused stable and garage in a backlane. The budget has been set by the fixed relationship between student rental prices and house prices in the area (5-6% pa), but apart from that i am the client, so hopefully i can answer my own question there!
The reason most architects don't design their own houses is because they can't afford to, i'm sure all that can, do.

[back2b]

I believe,

being a developer means to know and accept the market.
Then you have to provide the people with what they'ld like to have.
The risk in developing 'good architecture' is much higher than just giving the masses what they are asking for.

I believe,
if you would like to influence people towards a more modern architectural language it has to be done in a different way: via the media.

The best european example are the Netherlands:
The Netherlands are - I hope everybody will agree on that - the most progressive european country so far - in terms of the public acceptance of modern architecture.
As far as I know, this change was achieved by the lotto company:
Quite some time ago they changed the image of the "dream house" - the 'top prize' - which they were using for their TV ads from a tradional house towards a modern one.

And this helped changing the people's perception of modern houses.
Suddenly modern houses stood for 'dream houses'.
I guess it needs this kind of 'brainwashing' and a bit of luck of course to educate people towards another design-style.

(But maybe the Dutch are more progressive in general.)


TV is powerful.
Another example I can give is a friend of mine.
He is more or less a regular guy without a special interest in architecture - lik emost people are. But: he was a big fan of Hong-Kong movies.
In comparison with most european or US movies it is much more common with chinese directors that they chose modern houses for their setting.
And this really changed my friend's perception of architecture.
He told me if he should be able to build his own house once I shall go and design him something like that.

[arv]

Like every skill , being a developer is what you either are born with or acquire over time . I sense that there is a strong feeling that developers are boors , have no taste and so things for money , the opposite can also be true that you as an architect don't have the aptitude to think like a builder , you don't have the special gift to be a builder/developer . And I am not saying you to anyone in particular but to all of us . I suspect the kind of developer Lewisuk would like to be is not someone who makes huge shopping malls but something on a smaller scale , buy small lots , build good houses and sell them . It can be done if you have the necessary skills for it . I have a colleague who always has something going on along with his job . He started with no capital , with something very modest but he knew where to invest , had the elbows necessary for the job and drives the gas guzzling SUV that I suspect you want to as well . If this is what so start small , develop you skills and resources and then it upto how good you are at being an uncouth boor .

[Chris Stewart]

But you also have to understand that the post was written in what was not an entirely serious tone and you really shouldn't get your knickers in a twist over these things.

I have no way of telling whether your serious are not if you don't say so.

I don't know if i'd consider it to be architecture or not without seing it, architecture to me is building design, building building is not always the same.

This is my point. From this and several similar comments I have read not all buildings are architecture.

Perhaps you could send me photographs of the architecture you created in the past week

I tried to share my work here but there wasn't much interest. I just don't get any request for modern where I live.

The reason most architects don't design their own houses is because they can't afford to, i'm sure all that can, do.

I don't think this is true (at least in the US). Architects own houses just like everyone else. They just tend to buy a house that someone else designed. It isn't that hard to build a house. Many people making average livings manage to do it.

What does it say about an architect if they only consider certain buildings to be architecture? Look at some of the others comments here. This group likes modern and over at CORA many think only traditional is good architecture. It seems to me that, in the world of architects, if you produce anything that the average person wants to buy your a "sell out". Many can't even build their own houses because of fear of how they will be judged by them. So is it really any wonder (with such unrealistic ideals) why more architects are not developers?

Would you like to design, build and sell your own houses? I have built several houses but I prefer to just design them.