kitchen design

[arrestme]

Here's a quick render I did yesterday of how my kitchen (maybe) will be :D

I'm changing to a white Corian counter-top, removing two cabinets (where the dining table is), make a dining table witch matches the oak floor, and painting (lack) the cabinet doors olive (white today). Good? Bad?

[MICHEL]

Here's a quick render I did yesterday of how my kitchen (maybe) will be :D

I'm changing to a white Corian counter-top, removing two cabinets (where the dining table is), make a dining table witch matches the oak floor, and painting (lack) the cabinet doors olive (white today). Good? Bad?

Arrestme, if you're asking for some crits / discussions about your new interior, better move this to "pre-design discussion" section. Not a problem, but let us know... just to avoid thread highjaking :D

[arrestme]

Arrestme, if you're asking for some crits / discussions about your new interior, better move this to "pre-design discussion" section. Not a problem, but let us know... just to avoid thread highjaking :D

Hmmm... maybe, but I think the "project" is to small to deserve it's own thread. :P

[MICHEL]

Hmmm... maybe, but I think the "project" is to small to deserve it's own thread. :P

No matter how small the project, we look for great ideas! :D

[MICHEL]

Here you go, your own thread now! Shoot infos to get feed back.

[arrestme]

Oh :P

Well, here is the plan

[SWANK-E]

this is not pre-design talk anymore... moved again

[arrestme]

Another view

[wizum]

so how big of a living unit is this kitchen providing for? I am thinking this design would be for a condo/townhome or very small house? And what is happening beyond the kitchen space? adjacencies? See it isn't so simple to judge without some context :)

I like "stylistically" what you have. Not a big fan of green neccessarily but this seems to work well in what you are showing. and since this is such a small design focus can we see some of your ideas about how you are handling things like the door handles/pulls, and fixtures your planning on using, etc.?

[wizum]

from your second shot...

I am not sure how much space you are leaving open to enter into the kitchen becuase of how the table is coming out. How much room is that? Could the table turn 90 degrees? maybe worth looking at. Also I see you decided to end the cabinets after the cooking range and vent and you have left a shelf. Why not extrend the shelf out a bit more? even create another above it and/or below it? seems like that you are left with making this space as efficient as you can so take advantage of those things... Just some initial thoughts...

[wizum]

And one other thing arrestme...

this is an example of the kind of efficiency I am getting at... maybe you think its too much but just an idea for you...

Shavin House Kitchen table (http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums//showpost.php?p=61761&postcount=17) (Frank L Wright)

its a different shape than what you have but the idea shows what I was getting at with the shelf piece that is coming out from the stove vent...

[arrestme]

And here is aprox. how it looks today.

[arrestme]

so how big of a living unit is this kitchen providing for? I am thinking this design would be for a condo/townhome or very small house? And what is happening beyond the kitchen space? adjacencies? See it isn't so simple to judge without some context :)

I like "stylistically" what you have. Not a big fan of green neccessarily but this seems to work well in what you are showing. and since this is such a small design focus can we see some of your ideas about how you are handling things like the door handles/pulls, and fixtures your planning on using, etc.?

Yes, it's a small two-bedroom apartment. Aprox. 65 square meters living area. About context; I dont have plans to show right now, but I could make them. Two people are living here, me and my girlfriend so the space is enough. The house is a terrace house with 5 floors, we live on the fifth floor and the view is great (ocean view) Allthough its dark almost 24 hours this time of year up here (far north).

Yes, I will think about what kind of handles/pulls Im gonna be using. Ideas are welcome!

[MICHEL]

High ceiling seems odd to me and unecessary over the kitchen space. I was thinking about something like this (green might not be the best choice though...).

[arrestme]

from your second shot...

I am not sure how much space you are leaving open to enter into the kitchen becuase of how the table is coming out. How much room is that? Could the table turn 90 degrees? maybe worth looking at. Also I see you decided to end the cabinets after the cooking range and vent and you have left a shelf. Why not extrend the shelf out a bit more? even create another above it and/or below it? seems like that you are left with making this space as efficient as you can so take advantage of those things... Just some initial thoughts...

Yes, it's a bit tight, but it's about the same passage as it is today, or more even (see the last picture I posted). Maybe a round table like you showed me in the other thread would workbetter...

I like your idea about extending the shelf + adding shelves. I dont want too fill the space too much though.

As you can see, there is a quite high ceiling above the kitchen. Any ideas of how this could be used?

[vOid]

I think the overall image is very good. Still, I would suggest you to use a "cleaner" design for the table - if it is in a different material why not individualize it more instead of letting it intersect the corian side? (comparative image).
Also I would suggest you to use a more integrated extractor (e. g., the drawer - like models, that can be tucked away when not in use).
Michel's idea seems good if you have a big enough space. If the living /kitchen space is small it will seem smaller that way.

[arrestme]

Here's the rest of the plan (it's not accurate, but pretty close)
I've been thinking about doing something like MICHEL proposed with a lower/flat ceiling for the kitchen area.

[kwistenbiebel]

Hi arrestme,

It's always interesting to discuss a design, no matter the size of it.
Thanks for giving us the plan so we can discuss further on the subject.

I am not going into the detailing of the cabinets and the table because i think that's too soon.
First you should refine your general concept and approach considering the whole of the appartement.

I see some possibilities there and i would second the concept that MICHEL suggested with his image (post #15)

The kitchen could be seen as part of a bigger 'standalone' volume together with the storage space, the bathroom and the big bedroom.
(see picture).

You could make this happen by wrapping a material around the volume, or just by the use of colour.

In this way the kitchen will blend into a bigger whole, instead of being 'thrown in'.

[arrestme]

Hi arrestme,

It's always interesting to discuss a design, no matter the size of it.
Thanks for giving us the plan so we can discuss further on the subject.

I am not going into the detailing of the cabinets and the table because i think that's too soon.
First you should refine your general concept and approach considering the whole of the appartement.

I see some possibilities there and i would second the concept that MICHEL suggested with his image (post #15)

The kitchen could be seen as part of a bigger 'standalone' volume together with the storage space, the bathroom and the big bedroom.
(see picture).

You could make this happen by wrapping a material around the volume, or just by the use of colour.

In this way the kitchen will blend into a bigger whole, instead of being 'thrown in'.

How much do you charge?:D I will definitly look into that idea. I learn a lot just by reading here. Thank's a bunch!!

[Richard]

I have to say I like Michel's idea as I never like kitchens that seem part or an extension of the living space. It has a different function as such should be so cast.

I'd also consider Void's idea of pulling the bench out further and in any case include a pull out extractor and also do something to rid yourself of the minor shelf over this as they just become covered in crap.

[wizum]

Hi arrestme,

It's always interesting to discuss a design, no matter the size of it.
Thanks for giving us the plan so we can discuss further on the subject.

I am not going into the detailing of the cabinets and the table because i think that's too soon.
First you should refine your general concept and approach considering the whole of the appartement.

I see some possibilities there and i would second the concept that MICHEL suggested with his image (post #15)

The kitchen could be seen as part of a bigger 'standalone' volume together with the storage space, the bathroom and the big bedroom.
(see picture).

You could make this happen by wrapping a material around the volume, or just by the use of colour.

In this way the kitchen will blend into a bigger whole, instead of being 'thrown in'.


A fine idea kwistenbiebel... though if you do that I think it would make since to then use a color that would work with the green and be different from the cabinet color... Too much green I think... but thats just a preference thing... though it brings up a great point about how we should be more explorative in our work... its amazing how much little things can effect our designs... the use of color and texture do some incredible stuff to space and how we read it.

Michel your idea makes sense, though from the image it does seem as though it would make the overall space seem smaller... but as I look at the image you posted I think it looks much better than what arrestme currently has with the full height ceiling...

And, I think, the way you have articulated the table integrating into the cabinets reads as a composition much better arrestme. From a funtional standpoint and giving you a little more room in the kitchen doing what Void suggested might be a better choice. If it was me though, not that anyone is asking :), I would do it your way... But with a round table? :)

[arrestme]

Here's something new

[SWANK-E]

hei arrestme, please share the skp file so it makes it easier for people to tinker with the design

[arrestme]

hei arrestme, please share the skp file so it makes it easier for people to tinker with the design

Here's my confession ; I dont use SU to model!!! But I could convert the file, but be prepared for a messy model.

[utiler]

that would be great arrestme, i have an idea......
A

[arrestme]

Heres a SU file.

[arrestme]

Following what Richard said (except about the shelves), I came up with this.

[wizum]

I like where its going... how about introducing a third color? Here is a grey color with the outer kitchen wall... not sure... but again worth a look :) probably not the right grey but what the hell... and I am using gimp as my photoshop stopped working (I have no idea why) so its a crappy paint job on my part :o

[utiler]

Hey Arrestme, here is my solution.
For a start, open the kitchen up to the living area by re-locating the joinery on the left corner as you enter the ktichen; this opens up the space to the living dining area.
Secondly, run a floating bench out of the space to open it up; there is nothing worst then a closed in kitchen. by doing this the fridge, stove and pantry are accessible from a centre work bench.
Also, i'm not a big fan of dropping the ceiling is such a confined space.

I haven't spent to much time on the model but you should get the picture...

All the best with it.
A

[utiler]

And an elevation view......

[trogers]

this is a fun little thread to watch develop...but, as always, I must harken back to "concept" and ask what you believe in and what you would like to achieve? many are tossing out ideas pertaining to just what looks good as they tinker or options that might work within a naive mindset of the actual project, but what outcome are you desiring? is there something more that this project can be?

[gorgon]

arrestme. I think:


you should lose the U-shape kitchen. U's are really inefficient and relatively expensive (and if you are doing this as a DIY project much trickier to install).
a galley would be better, you might lose 1 lower and 1 upper unit but the units you get will work much much better.
you don't need this tall fridge/unit thing (or do you?) if you go for under counter fridge freezer you could make the kitchen visually more open
you should treat the dining table separately, basically don't worry it now


Here is a very quick (it can look better, honest) image of what I mean

When I was in London I had a tiny kitchen like this and what worked well (serendipitously) was using the same door fronts as the floor (oak) it suddenly made the place look much bigger. (They always say "avoid strong coloirs in small spaces" but what do they know).

Thanks for sharing your project we all love this kind of design :cheers:

[koos]

Lets look at the basics , and get rid of that cooker hood sticking out. I allways use an integraded cooker hood.

This is a popular model here with us, (Model Bosch DHI 635H Slimline Hood), I think a company called "Faber" , in italy also does one where the complete front face of the door swings out at the bottom.

[koos]

...........yes I also do some traditional inspired stuff........ shoot me!

I'd like to think that I do it well.....

[Francesco]

Hello.
A 'box in the box' as Kwisten suggested seems a good way.
The sloped ceiling unifies this volume.

[arrestme]

Thank's so much guys!

Utiler:
I like your proposal for efficency. It looks like a great place to be doing kitchen stuff in:D Problem is the kitchen sinks you have placed freely. Getting the pipes there would be difficult as the floor slabs are concrete and there is another apartment below this apartment. I think I agree with you on not dropping the ceiling.

Trogers:

What would I like to achieve? As you can see in post #12, there isnt really a dining table, only a countertop thing(with bar-stools). I would like to have a table instead. There isnt room for a seperate dining table anywhere else in the apartment, therefore I came up with this solution. I like it that people are tossing out theire ideas, it's great actually. I really dont have what i would call a concept.

Gorgon:

I have made a new proposal with some of your ideas in mind. I think it works pretty well. I kept the fridge and the dining table though.

[arrestme]

Here I moved the fridge cabinet too the back wall witch I think opens up the kitchen in a nice way. Moved the dishwasher and cabinet away from the back wall and extending the surface of the floor up the back wall.

[arrestme]

Second view

[gorgon]

i like it. nice wall at the back
:cool:

[wizum]

Yes... your last post there arrestme is the best solution so far... That wall will be fun to do though :) you are doing all this yourself, correct?

[Herodes]

The choice of something dark for the back wall is o I suppose. but I wouldn't go for something glossy,.. The cooking air (oils, vapours and such) don't sit nicely on glossy surfaces. I'd also put the oven displaced one more cabinet towards the back wall and put the dish-washer in its present position. Just to have more space for those "other dishes" that apear when few people use the table.

[arrestme]

Yes... your last post there arrestme is the best solution so far... That wall will be fun to do though :) you are doing all this yourself, correct?

No no. With the Corian stuff I need some help from professionals, and I can probably get some help from my brother who is a carpenter. What problem do you see with putting up the wall?

[arrestme]

I added a cabinet with glass doors instead of the shelves. I agree with Richard that those shelves probably would fill up with unpretty junk, and put handles/pulls on the doors and drawers.

[arrestme]

Closer view

[gorgon]

I think you should go back to open shelves. they were a nice way of fading out from 'kitchen' to 'living room' (like the gradient tool from photoshop) :cool:

Corian?! ai ai ai. loads of money. and for what? a plastic counter top; your sink is on the non 'front' side (a good thing) so you don't even get the nice counter becoming sink thing.

If you are stuck for other materials how about casting your own concrete counter top. There is information out there on how to do this, its fun, good to learn, cheap and can look fantastic (buffed up afterwards with a sander).

[nicholas]

I think you should go back to open shelves. they were a nice way of fading out from 'kitchen' to 'living room' (like the gradient tool from photoshop) :cool:

Corian?! ai ai ai. loads of money. and for what? a plastic counter top; your sink is on the non 'front' side (a good thing) so you don't even get the nice counter becoming sink thing.

If you are stuck for other materials how about casting your own concrete counter top. There is information out there on how to do this, its fun, good to learn, cheap and can look fantastic (buffed up afterwards with a sander).

agreed; concrete is good

[gorgon]

agreed; concrete is good

That looks great. and current? Is that your house with the sliding doors (http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4743&highlight=pawson+sliding)?

ps how did you cast the upstands? at the same time? with lots of vibration?

[nicholas]

Thanks; no a project in Singapore- the method is a safe option for when you do not have Japanese carpenters to build the form work- just a sloppy formed concrete (done separately) with a mapei finish coat and then polished with a sander; used in the bath rooms as well

[arrestme]

I think you should go back to open shelves. they were a nice way of fading out from 'kitchen' to 'living room' (like the gradient tool from photoshop) :cool:

Corian?! ai ai ai. loads of money. and for what? a plastic counter top; your sink is on the non 'front' side (a good thing) so you don't even get the nice counter becoming sink thing.

If you are stuck for other materials how about casting your own concrete counter top. There is information out there on how to do this, its fun, good to learn, cheap and can look fantastic (buffed up afterwards with a sander).

I like this idea very much! But how does concrete maintain? Will it crack after time? What about weight? Can the cabinets support the weight, or do they need to be strenghtened you think?

It sure looks good (if done right!)

[kwistenbiebel]

I second the suggestions of Gorgon not to use Corian being an expensive solution. Using concrete however is expensive too and results depend on craftsmanship of the contractor + it's heavy.

Just as a side note: i tried a very 'simple' version of your kitchen, thinking about economics .
In this example, the kitchen is a chunck bitten out of the volume.
To keep the living room flexible i put in a standalone table.
I made two material versions just as a test: one plain white with a wooden back wall and one in the green you seem to like.

Arrest me, i like the motivation you show in making this design work.
You are getting there. I would only suggest to be careful with the use of color in a random manner.

[Nick Fox]

You seem to be trying to hide this kitchen in the corner rather than bringing it out into the light and I find that aspect of the design a bit worrying. I think the average person can reach a shelf comfortable at 1350 and 1850 high at a maximum stretch. Perhaps glass door and/or open shelving would do the trick but right now it's a bit flat.

[kwistenbiebel]

Yes, opening up the kitchen towards the living space probably is the better option. Good point.
(arrest me, you can ignore my previous attempt ;) )

[arrestme]

Yes, opening up the kitchen towards the living space probably is the better option. Good point.
(arrest me, you can ignore my previous attempt ;) )

I think he was talking to me actually, as "I" (not me but they who built the apartments) have placed the kitchen in the corner there. Also he mentioned the reaching distance for a human, and I think he meant the cabinet withe the glass doors witch I agree could be a long reach.

I really really liked your example, nice and clean lines, yet has some drama to it. And I dont think its too enclosed at all since its a tall opening.

I was trying not to be random with using the colores, but I may have overdone it a bit :P Maybe I'll make an example with a neutral color for the cabinets and a more bold color for the backsplashes. (If I dont go for something along the line of your example)

[kwistenbiebel]

I think he was talking to me actually..

Oh, i see. Always thought i had a little paranoia going on. :D

[vOid]

just a sloppy formed concrete (done separately) with a mapei finish coat and then polished with a sander; used in the bath rooms as well
I do not intend to distract anyone from the main subject, but this technique seems very interesting and I really would appreciate if you (nicholas) or someone familiar with it could be more specific in describing the process and materials involved ( e.g. what mapei product are you talking about?).

About the kitchen, arrestme: I really like kwistenbiebel's version and I think that if the separate table is an option, it's always better than a fixed one. Although this version "isolates" the kitchen from the living space, it also produces a cleaner result.

[arrestme]

I do not intend to distract anyone from the main subject, but this technique seems very interesting and I really would appreciate if you (nicholas) or someone familiar with it could be more specific in describing the process and materials involved ( e.g. what mapei product are you talking about?).

About the kitchen, arrestme: I really like kwistenbiebel's version and I think that if the separate table is an option, it's always better than a fixed one. Although this version "isolates" the kitchen from the living space, it also produces a cleaner result.

I found som info. on concrete countertops etc. here http://www.concreteexchange.com/gallery_cd.jsp

[entremuros]

You seem to be trying to hide this kitchen in the corner rather than bringing it out into the light and I find that aspect of the design a bit worrying.

Hi!

I agree with Nick Fox! Wouldn't be better if you'd incorporated the storage in the kitchen (on the blind side) leaving it more open to the side windows on the corridor that would bring it more light?

[arrestme]

Hi!

I agree with Nick Fox! Wouldn't be better if you'd incorporated the storage in the kitchen (on the blind side) leaving it more open to the side windows on the corridor that would bring it more light?

Hi there

Yeah sure, but that would leave this little project with a whole different price tag. That storage space you see there contains all the technical stuff (electrical, water, climate control system) so moving that would cost a lot (in comparison). Also I would need to lay a new floor.

[gorgon]

I do not intend to distract anyone from the main subject, but his technique seems very interesting and I really would appreciate if you (nicholas) or someone familiar with it could be more specific in describing the process and materials involved

I second that. It doesn't need to hijak this thread, its complementary :D .

To come back on a couple of issues: I think the location is right; okay so its in a corner and its not basking in the light but as arrestme said there is no light in Norge now, its 22hours dark! On cost, concrete is cheap if you do it yourself. Weight; you can work the weight out for yourself then take a view, mabe some additional support but not much.

[kwistenbiebel]

On cost, concrete is cheap if you do it yourself. Weight; you can work the weight out for yourself then

A friend of me tried to pour his own concrete tablet in his bathroom.
It failed completely. The end result wasn't near the thing he expected it to be.
Probably the mixture was wrong.

When all concrete became hard he ended up with a useless piece of crap that was difficult to get out of his bathroom.

So, unless you have experience, forget about pouring concrete yourself for such things.
Precasting it somewhere else isn't an option either unless you have ten friends who like to carry the weight in.

[stironman]

just my 2 cents:

transitions are made more soft - spaces flow into each other:

wall becomes kitchen - kitchen becomes dining room ...

[trogers]

A friend of me tried to pour his own concrete tablet in his bathroom.
It failed completely. The end result wasn't near the thing he expected it to be.
Probably the mixture was wrong.

When all concrete became hard he ended up with a useless piece of crap that was difficult to get out of his bathroom.

So, unless you have experience, forget about pouring concrete yourself for such things.
Precasting it somewhere else isn't an option either unless you have ten friends who like to carry the weight in.

It only took 2 of us to move (3) 2" thick precasted slabs for my friends kitchen...I'd go that way. Just think about how you can pour it in segments.

[gorgon]

A friend of me tried to pour his own concrete tablet in his bathroom.
It failed completely. The end result wasn't near the thing he expected it to be.
Probably the mixture was wrong.

When all concrete became hard he ended up with a useless piece of crap that was difficult to get out of his bathroom.

So, unless you have experience, forget about pouring concrete yourself for such things.
Precasting it somewhere else isn't an option either unless you have ten friends who like to carry the weight in.

A useful word of caution. But another solution might be some trial pours.

[Herodes]

A useful word of caution. But another solution might be some trial pours.
Or even try making it absolutely as thin as possible, think engineering.

It was suggested that you might pour it in segments. I wouldn't go there, not very watertight unless you use glues which are not really healthy, bear in mind that this is a food processing tool.

Also keep in mind that you will need to paint it with some special coating, because you are most likely to find cement dust washing off as time pass and the surface will become more and more coarse.

[wizum]

Just my opinion arrestme but you're post #38 I think is the strongest solution you have for the kitchen for you're particular unit. Some of the more recent ones seem to really be closing off the space and it isn't that big of space to start with. I like elements of what otheres are suggesting but 38 just feels much better as a whole IMHO.

To comment on the attached table thing... how many of you sit down and eat formally at a dinner table for every meal? I know I don't... it is rare actually... though I am single and the couch or desk becomes my dinning table of choice :) So what makes sense for arrestme to do is how he eats and where. That should drive his decisions on this matter.

On the concrete counter... arrestme, you did say you lived on an upper floor? So you would have to pour your "slab" in your place so expect a mess... I just had an old school mate of mine finish building his house and they installed the concrete counters and did it all themselves. They said it was a big mess and sure it looks good but that they would definetly pay someone to do it next time. So your taking a gamble a bit I think by doing this yourself and there are other alternatives to counter tops out there. How important is the counter top in the big picture? And I think I agree on the corian, too expensive... how about a wood top? this one from Ikea and is very resonable... Just one more idea into the mix :D

[imasayer]

Concrete counter tops can work well. I would suggest Fu-Tung Cheng's book on the subject. A good investment. Give you tips on forming, proper mix, reinforcing, and finishing. Here (http://www.concreteexchange.com) is his website.

[entremuros]

Hi there

Yeah sure, but that would leave this little project with a whole different price tag. That storage space you see there contains all the technical stuff (electrical, water, climate control system) so moving that would cost a lot (in comparison). Also I would need to lay a new floor.

I see! I've just arrived here, didn't know that you had such infra-structural difficulties from the beginning.

Anyway, good luck!

[arrestme]

Just my opinion arrestme but you're post #38 I think is the strongest solution you have for the kitchen for you're particular unit. Some of the more recent ones seem to really be closing off the space and it isn't that big of space to start with. I like elements of what otheres are suggesting but 38 just feels much better as a whole IMHO.

To comment on the attached table thing... how many of you sit down and eat formally at a dinner table for every meal? I know I don't... it is rare actually... though I am single and the couch or desk becomes my dinning table of choice :) So what makes sense for arrestme to do is how he eats and where. That should drive his decisions on this matter.

On the concrete counter... arrestme, you did say you lived on an upper floor? So you would have to pour your "slab" in your place so expect a mess... I just had an old school mate of mine finish building his house and they installed the concrete counters and did it all themselves. They said it was a big mess and sure it looks good but that they would definetly pay someone to do it next time. So your taking a gamble a bit I think by doing this yourself and there are other alternatives to counter tops out there. How important is the counter top in the big picture? And I think I agree on the corian, too expensive... how about a wood top? this one from Ikea and is very resonable... Just one more idea into the mix :D

This is confusing that's for sure :D But thanks for liking my solution. Im thinking about not having the table attached, I guess it's not a very practical solution.

Countertop? Hmmm... concrete wasnt my idea. I wont be doing that. Ikea also has countertops in what appears to be aluminium (pic). I dont know how to do the sides where the counter continues too the floor without using Corian (seamless)?

[arrestme]

I see! I've just arrived here, didn't know that you had such infra-structural difficulties from the beginning.

Anyway, good luck!

Thank's! If I started from skratch I would have done it like you proposed.

[cacapis]

Im thinking about not having the table attached, I guess it's not a very practical solution.
Definitely not a good solution. All the schemes without the attached table look much better.
I particularly like kwisten's proposal because it looks great, but the roof height looks odd, particularly because in this case the space is like stretched upwards.

Maybe something like this could work. Two strong elements, the wall and the countertop sticking out of the hole (kind of a phallic insinuation, the hole being the kitchen :wondering :wondering )

[utiler]

Yes, opening up the kitchen towards the living space probably is the better option. Good point.
(arrest me, you can ignore my previous attempt ;) )

this was my reasoning.... see my previous posts...

[arrestme]

Tried this too

Pardon the lousy renderings (Accurender you know :D)

[arrestme]

Definitely not a good solution. All the schemes without the attached table look much better.
I particularly like kwisten's proposal because it looks great, but the roof height looks odd, particularly because in this case the space is like stretched upwards.

Maybe something like this could work. Two strong elements, the wall and the countertop sticking out of the hole (kind of a phallic insinuation, the hole being the kitchen :wondering :wondering )

I also like Kwistenbiebels proposal the best. I think he used the "odd" roof height in a very creative way, instead of just covering it up. Covering it would just be redusing an already pretty small volume.

[nicholas]

I do not intend to distract anyone from the main subject, but this technique seems very interesting and I really would appreciate if you (nicholas) or someone familiar with it could be more specific in describing the process and materials involved ( e.g. what mapei product are you talking about?).

About the kitchen, arrestme: I really like kwistenbiebel's version and I think that if the separate table is an option, it's always better than a fixed one. Although this version "isolates" the kitchen from the living space, it also produces a cleaner result.

I will try and do this in a separate thread; I have used the mentioned technique on several projects, the oldest is two years old and is in perfect condition. In Singapore the contractors seem to have no problem with it, though in Australia a contractor worked on the client until he changed his mind (& now regrets it)

[nicholas]

just my 2 cents:

transitions are made more soft - spaces flow into each other:

wall becomes kitchen - kitchen becomes dining room ...

This is a great idea...

[Richard]

Arrestme

Mate why not make the table unit of material to match the floor as previously considered but have it as a stand alone unit so that it may be moved to various locations. Either as you originally considered of as per your last proposal.

I have to say I actually do also like cacapis's suggestion and if you provided a gap above the door under the bench you could cleverly provide two underbench cupboards that could be positioned at the kitchen end or moved (with the clear gap on these units) to separate the bench length to be either breakfast bar or desk area as it so suit you.

[arrestme]

Here is a totally unrealistic proposal. Mostly for fun.

Richard I agree on having the table seperate as you said. I really appreciate all the help and good advice you guys are giving me. Thank's!

[archie1492]

Here is a totally unrealistic proposal. Mostly for fun.

Richard I agree on having the table seperate as you said. I really appreciate all the help and good advice you guys are giving me. Thank's!

I like this version. The kitchen becomes a stage. A cooking performance!
:cheers:

[arrestme]

I like this version. The kitchen becomes a stage. A cooking performance!
:cheers:

Or an accident waiting to happen :D

[WilsonMetry]

Tried this too

Pardon the lousy renderings (Accurender you know :D)

I like this one. The attached surface will be a very good "landing spot" as you circulate around it. Very practical.

--picture didnt come through> the image in post 72--

[kwistenbiebel]

very interesting that last proposal....this is going somewhere

[msalvarez]

very interesting that last proposal....this is going somewhere

I like it too. Why is it "unrealistic"?

[arrestme]

I like it too. Why is it "unrealistic"?

Allthough I havent done any calculations, I beleive that last option would be very pricey. But then again it might be totally worth it. Cant decide :bang head

[cacapis]

Well something like the suitcase house (http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136) might work with those level changes

[Stijn]

Why do you guys like this so much? Because it is different? Imagine that you are sitting at that table, and that the other person is doing stuff in the kitchen meanwhile. Really cosy to have to look at his feet, or to get cramps in the neck, when wanting to interact with that person at that moment...

The thing you did with that corner makes the corner more than just that little lost space in the room.
But to have a kitchen inthere, and then especially with the kitchen dining table a level lower, I don't know...

Funny, I gave the comment before watching that suitcase house topic. Kitchen is lower there.

[Marr]

I do not like the 2 level proposal. IMO it it is much better that the kitchen blends in with the living room. I think capacis is on to something in post #70 with extending the kitchen into the living room. I don´t like however in that proposal, like in many of the others, a wall above the kitchen entrance. I can´t understand why people don´t like the high ceiling in the kitchen. I think it´s great.
I also like kwistenbiebels solution from post #50, it is elegant and simple and Arrastme, I also think your own solution in post #37 is really going somewhere. The kitchen is open and extends into the living room. IMO that is the way you should be heading.
What ever you do, please don´t lower the ceiling. It is a privilege to live in an apartment where you have a higher ceiling than the 2,3 m standard.

[gorgon]

I do not like the 2 level proposal. IMO it it is much better that the kitchen blends in with the living room. I think capacis is on to something in post #70 with extending the kitchen into the living room. I don´t like however in that proposal, like in many of the others, a wall above the kitchen entrance. I can´t understand why people don´t like the high ceiling in the kitchen. I think it´s great.
I also like kwistenbiebels solution from post #50, it is elegant and simple and Arrastme, I also think your own solution in post #37 is really going somewhere. The kitchen is open and extends into the living room. IMO that is the way you should be heading.
What ever you do, please don´t lower the ceiling. It is a privilege to live in an apartment where you have a higher ceiling than the 2,3 m standard.


This is good advice and from Stijn too. I also think your own images nos 37 and 38 are the best so far.

[kwistenbiebel]

The splitlevel concept that arrestme showed us, inspired me to combine it with the earlier idea I posted.

[kwistenbiebel]

...and a close-up

[Frenchy Pilou]

...when you miss a step with a boiling marmite? :rolleyes: (or without)
Esthetic aspect must be also the more practical safeness possible ! :no no no:
Here there will a drama against the corner table :wondering

[kenchen]

i like the style,it looks terse and its color is stronger fairly. it may be called among modernism.

[rvider]

Like the idea of the raised kitchen as an idea only. In practical terms having the stair inside the kitchen area is a whole bunch of accidents and law suits waiting to happen. I mucked around with that idea and ended with the stairs outside on the wall with the "face" (original arrestme design) and extended the kitchen platform out but split level then started to bore me.

I've had a few further thoughts and propose the following.
It allows you to define a dining room in the open plan without walls.
Gives you numerous opportunities for lighting schemes for the dining and kitchen.
Creates an real intimate dining experience.
Can accomodate numerous painting schemes (see micheals earler comments) (and it doesn't have to be green _ I'm just following the current colour scheme)
Incorporates the kitchen in a larger gesture rather than a hole in the wall.
Provides additional storeage that can either be kitchen or living store.
etc......

Is mainly plasterboard on timber frameing for bulkhead so should be cheap if no structural alterations to the roof are required (shouldn't think so) and retains all existing walls and fixtures in their current position.


Hope this is help stir the creative juices.

Nice little fun job (real break from the airport job I'm working on - too draining and big)

included some different lighting shots from Maxwell as well as the SU plan. If you want the SU model just let me know.

Of course you can incorporate the kitchen joinery in the scheme etc and replan the layout etc. I obviously haven't done this and am not proposing to keep the kitchen as it is. I don't have alot of time to remodel it that's all.

Cheers
Rob

[rvider]

the plan

[rvider]

Day shot 1

[rvider]

Day shot 2

[rvider]

Night Shot 1

[rvider]

Night Shot 2

[wizum]

This is good advice and from Stijn too. I also think your own images nos 37 and 38 are the best so far.

This is what I was saying in Post #40... gosh you guys are slow :D

seriously though, some great examples and suggestions guys... whether practical or not shows how such a simple project can generate so many ideas... good stuff... and Vrider you have made a bold but do-able suggestion that would really go to enhancing the place as a whole in the public spaces...

In the end arrestme you should consider a couple of things... and these are things I have considered with renovation jobs I have done in my condo unit...

1. How long do you plan on living there?
2. How much did the place cost and how much makes sense to put into it versus the potential return.
3. How do you really use the space and does what you build enhance the space and truely make it better or does it just look cool?

design is wonderful and can add alot but design also needs to be within context, both practical and conceptual.

and this thread deserves more than 3 stars... I'll do my part to improve that :)

[msalvarez]

seriously though, some great examples and suggestions guys... whether practical or not shows how such a simple project can generate so many ideas... good stuff.



Interesting way to think about the thread. I hadnt looked at it that way.

Your my hero:not worth

[kwistenbiebel]

Rvider,
Great solution you show us here.
That existing pitched roof makes a rectangular incision look very spectacular.
In my opnion, you have a winning design here. ( was there ever a contest?)



And with this last shot i will stop hijacking Arrestme's thread....;)
(And yes... those stairs are way too dangerous, i should have limited it to just one step)

[Marr]

i like the style,it looks terse and its color is stronger fairly. it may be called among modernism.

Is there not any decent translating software available. I don't understand any of that. :confused:

[kwistenbiebel]

Is there not any decent translating software available. I don't understand any of that. :confused:

Pushpullbar is a good medium for a lot of people to practice language skills. We have to encourage that and give Kenchen a break.
Besides, was it really that hard to understand?
...He liked the style, it looks tense, vivid colours, modernistic appearance.

There.

[Richard]

Rob thats a nice proposal too!

[Marr]

Pushpullbar is a good medium for a lot of people to practice language skills. We have to encourage that and give Kenchen a break.
Besides, was it really that hard to understand?
...He liked the style, it looks tense, vivid colours, modernistic appearance.

There.

I didn't mean to discourage anybody to be here or to practice there language skills. But In this particular case I suspect that some kind of software was used to translate into english. I might be wrong of course. Thats why I was wondering if there is a more usable translation tool available. My english isn't perfect ether. :cheers:

[kwistenbiebel]

I guess a lot can go wrong with translation software from Chinese to English.
.;)
Thank God this forum is in english.
Can you imagine answering to a thread on a chinese forum?

[vOid]

About the kitchen design again: what's the use of making split levels if they aren't really necessary? Previous posts have already (correctly, IMO) criticized this option. With all due respect to the quality of the proposals showing the split level option, it seems like they will be creating more problems than providing solutions. Apply the K.I.S.S. principle and go back to a more realistic proposal - very good ones were shown here already.

[Richard]

About the kitchen design again: what's the use of making split levels if they aren't really necessary? Previous posts have already (correctly, IMO) criticized this option. With all due respect to the quality of the proposals showing the split level option, it seems like they will be creating more problems than providing solutions. Apply the K.I.S.S. principle and go back to a more realistic proposal - very good ones were shown here already.

At the same time mate I think these options have added useful discussion to this thread. For me although I appreciate the opinions offered to that end agree they introduce major safety issues then benefits but they certainly have added value to the thread.

[vOid]

At the same time mate I think these options have added useful discussion to this thread. For me although I appreciate the opinions offered to that end agree they introduce major safety issues then benefits but they certainly have added value to the thread.

Richard, I agree that they have provided a positive input to the discussion, but in an merely "academic" perspective. It looks like Arrestme is really wanting to refurbish his kitchen, so I think maybe the discussion should come down to earth again...

[MICHEL]

Well, I agree with you Richard! This "pimp my kitchen" competition has generated quite a number of nice designs and solutions. I ask for more! :D

[wizum]

"pimp my kitchen"

LOL

I know where I am going for suggestions when I ever get around to redoing my kitchen (and I will be renovating it some time in the next year or so)... I just ask it is all kept on on level :)

[rvider]

LOL

I know where I am going for suggestions when I ever get around to redoing my kitchen (and I will be renovating it some time in the next year or so)... I just ask it is all kept on on level :)

Can't wait to "Pimp My Kitchen" again :rock on:

[Bijten]

Day shot 2

Dude.
Excuse me if i'm re-treading old cyber-paths.
What's your process for these renders?
They're gorgeous.

[rvider]

Dude.
Excuse me if i'm re-treading old cyber-paths.
What's your process for these renders?
They're gorgeous.

Maxwell Render
Same image just adjusting the multilight settings (instantly get 4 images - or realy as much ajustment to the lighting as you want instantly. Just like being in the room with a dimmer for each light + a dimmer for the sun.
Straight out of sketchup using MXM material conversion for the floorboards.
Cheers :cheers:
Rob

[Bijten]

Maxwell Render
Same image just adjusting the multilight settings (instantly get 4 images - or realy as much ajustment to the lighting as you want instantly. Just like being in the room with a dimmer for each light + a dimmer for the sun.
Straight out of sketchup using MXM material conversion for the floorboards.
Cheers :cheers:
Rob

2 minute answer. Awesome.
Like your proposal too.

Is the multilight what gives it the 'grainy' look?

:cheers:

[rvider]

2 minute answer. Awesome.
Like your proposal too.

Is the multilight what gives it the 'grainy' look?

:cheers:


Just ran the render for 5 hours (I know I know, MXM is slow at the moment = long time for a render but useful for multilight)
more time = less grainy.

[rvider]

The splitlevel concept that arrestme showed us, inspired me to combine it with the earlier idea I posted.

Mate what are you using to render? Podium?? How do you get the internal ambient light levels this high. I downloaded 1.2 (improved) but not getting your realism. Got advice?

Like you slotted kitchen scheme BTW.

Cheers
Rob

[kwistenbiebel]

I made a little adaptation to my proposal.

[kwistenbiebel]

I am wondering where Arrestme went.
(hopefully somewhere on a beach on tequilas)

I really appreciate his design efforts and motivation to make it work.

[Frenchy Pilou]

...is a step! :D

[zebedak]

im going with rob's proposal - looks awesome!

[ajwtaylor]

im going with rob's proposal - looks awesome!

agreed looks great

:cheers:

[kwistenbiebel]

Damn, i seem to have lost a battle here. :o
( I should'nt be so competitive :rolleyes: )
Oh well...

[trogers]

Damn, i seem to have lost a battle here. :o
( I should'nt be so competitive :rolleyes: )
Oh well...

they both look great, when there is truly nothing to justify any option...to me this thread is just architecture potpourri...an excercise in what "looks good"...I'm sure there are thousands more to show.

[rvider]

they both look great, when there is truly nothing to justify any option...to me this thread is just architecture potpourri...an excercise in what "looks good"...I'm sure there are thousands more to show.

Agreed. It really comes back to the brief and budget.
Cheers everyone :cheers:

[kwistenbiebel]

...As if 'brief and budget' could never produce results that are functional and 'look good' at the same time.
I find this a rather pesimistic viewpoint on architectural design and a real motivation killer.

You made a nice proposal, both functional as conceptual. It even 'looks good'.
I see no reason for you not to stand by it.

If someone disagrees with proposals made, there is plenty of room over here to post their own .( pushpullbar has a big server;) )

[rvider]

...As if 'brief and budget' could never produce results that are functional and 'look good' at the same time.
I find this a rather pesimistic viewpoint on architectural design and a real motivation killer.

You made a nice proposal, both functional as conceptual. It even 'looks good'.
I see no reason for you not to stand by it.

If someone disagrees with proposals made, there is plenty of room over here to post their own .( pushpullbar has a big server;) )

I'm not NOT supporting my solution. If I didn't think it was a solution I wouldn't have put it on the forum. I'm simply saying that we are sketching designs for a kitchen but don't know alot about what is really required or what the budget really is. And I have to disagree with you that you can't achieve functional and good looking design if your respond to a brief and budget. This is a fundamental part of architecture (problem solving) the other is education of the client. I was simply being pragmatic not pesimestic. I also would like to encourage other members to post their work/ideas. That is why I wrote what I did. That's the point of the forum as you stated. I think there are a number of good solutions already proposed (yours included) but I'd like to see more from other members if they have the time and a brief+budget would also make the process more meaningful and rewarding.

Trogers do you have something to conribute 1 of a 1000 maybe?

Cheers
Rob

[kwistenbiebel]

And I have to disagree with you that you can't achieve functional and good looking design if your respond to a brief and budget.
Rob

...wasn't I saying the same thing in the post you responded to?
It could be my english that lead to some misunderstanding.
I am glad you still support your proposal.

I guess the 'potpourri' post someone made before had set me up.

[rvider]

... I guess the 'potpourri' post someone made before had set me up.

Sure I understand.
It was an inflamatory statement made by Trogers particularly as he had nothing more to contribute.

Cheers :cheers:
Rob

[imasayer]

they both look great, when there is truly nothing to justify any option...to me this thread is just architecture potpourri...an excercise in what "looks good"...I'm sure there are thousands more to show.

Why do we have to justify every move we make? What is wrong with going for a particular look? I just don't think everything we do needs some mystical meaning arbitrarily placed upon it. Some things can be intuitive and nothing more.

My wife did a master sweet remodel where they were adding a walk in closet. Her boss asked her what the concept was for the closet. I would guess that it was a place to keep clothes.

[gaffaman]

Why do we have to justify every move we make? What is wrong with going for a particular look? I just don't think everything we do needs some mystical meaning arbitrarily placed upon it. Some things can be intuitive and nothing more.

My wife did a master sweet remodel where they were adding a walk in closet. Her boss asked her what the concept was for the closet. I would guess that it was a place to keep clothes.

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar......"

Sigmund Freud

[wizum]

Why do we have to justify every move we make? What is wrong with going for a particular look? I just don't think everything we do needs some mystical meaning arbitrarily placed upon it. Some things can be intuitive and nothing more.

My wife did a master sweet remodel where they were adding a walk in closet. Her boss asked her what the concept was for the closet. I would guess that it was a place to keep clothes.

I think Tim meant that the options everone was starting to show was really going beyond what the original ideas were. There were practical issues dealing with budget and functionality that had not been thoroughly discussed and so the designs themeselves were becoming design excersises in aesthetics. I don't think he was talking about "meaning" in how you have stated it. But, I could be wrong, Tim? :)

[imasayer]

I think Tim meant that the options everone was starting to show was really going beyond what the original ideas were. There were practical issues dealing with budget and functionality that had not been thoroughly discussed and so the designs themeselves were becoming design excersises in aesthetics. I don't think he was talking about "meaning" in how you have stated it. But, I could be wrong, Tim? :)


Maybe you are right, and that is a good point. It is a fun little exercise though, no need to get to serious about it.

[stironman]

I think Tim meant that the options everone was starting to show was really going beyond what the original ideas were. There were practical issues dealing with budget and functionality that had not been thoroughly discussed and so the designs themeselves were becoming design excersises in aesthetics. I don't think he was talking about "meaning" in how you have stated it. But, I could be wrong, Tim? :)

however there was indeed no thorough discussion about the specific needs and issues for this project, I also think that every kitchen deals with a lot of the same design 'problems' that need to be 'solved'.

[trogers]

I did not mean to rain on anyone's parade, nor to motivationally kill the thread. I apologize for being too serious...

And wizum, I was referring to exactly what ima is talking about, but this goes back to the meaning in architecture thread. I still hold the belief that meaning in architecture (whether philosophically huge or nice and intimate) makes the difference between the mundane and good architecture, but this is not the thread to continue on about this...

My apologies everyone. I'm still young and must learn when to speak and when not to...

[rvider]

Hey all,
This thread stired up alot of discussion and interesting proposals.
Enjoyed everyones contribution. But I have one question.



Where the bloody hell is Arrestme???? :confused: ;)



Cheers :cheers:
Rob

[kwistenbiebel]

Hey all,
This thread stired up alot of discussion and interesting proposals.
Enjoyed everyones contribution. But I have one question.



Where the bloody hell is Arrestme???? :confused: ;)



Cheers :cheers:
Rob

I miss him here too in this thread.
Did we scare him away?

[jenujacob]

maybe hes already started building his kitchen!! ;) :P

[engo]

thank you Arrestme
the kitchen is simple in spite of its smallness
but the picture that you put it give me the sense of the size of the kitchen
so i think you must put a small pictures
thank you sooooo much again

[chris (nyc)]

.


My bet is, arrestme is busy building his kitchen. Let's hope he will post photos of the completed project.


.

[hena]

I think we can't use this kitchen because the space is small for cooking

[jenujacob]

I think we can't use this kitchen because the space is small for cooking

now isnt that typical of women???!!!! :P
geez whats is it with women and large kitchen?????:confused: :confused:

[el-capitano]

geez whats is it with women and large kitchen?????:confused: :confused:

Well as a architect wannabe cook- I can sympathise with the 'women' :)
( By that I mean real cooking- not the joke hamburger pizza :D )

A large kitchen is great- what is also great is that a thread for ONE kitchen can go for so many pages. Is this a reflection on our lives!! :D

[Nick Fox]

Well as a architect wannabe cook- I can sympathise with the 'women' :)
( By that I mean real cooking- not the joke hamburger pizza :D )

:D
Come on mate we know that pizza was for real - you can't fool us LMAO! :poke fun:

[el-capitano]

Come on mate we know that pizza was for real - you can't fool us LMAO! :poke fun:

shhhhh......:cool:

[kwistenbiebel]

As this thread is brought back to the attention on the PPB homepage as 'Not To Be Missed' it was great to check it again and relive the design discussion.
What happened to the original poster Arrestme? I wonder if he finished his kitchen in real life ;).

Anyway, I did some proposal in this thread and recently tried to re-render it as a 'dressed up' space (I threw in some IKEA stuff, the typical thing one would buy when low on budget ....errr besides the expensive Breuer chairs ;) ). Not the architectural finest, but fun anyway.

Here's that render:

[rambleon]

what a great thread! i love seeing all the differing ideas. kwistenbiebel your renders are stunning and your designs great to, i am trying to learn how to render at the momment, which program do you use? (sorry for off topic)

:craqueur: thread

[heavyweather]

:DAs this thread is brought back to the attention on the PPB homepage as 'Not To Be Missed' it was great to check it again and relive the design discussion.
What happened to the original poster Arrestme? I wonder if he finished his kitchen in real life ;).

Anyway, I did some proposal in this thread and recently tried to re-render it as a 'dressed up' space (I threw in some IKEA stuff, the typical thing one would buy when low on budget ....errr besides the expensive Breuer chairs ;) ). Not the architectural finest, but fun anyway.

Here's that render:


love your rerender. Nice details...the cup on the floor...the towel is hanging a bit against physics in my book...the newspaper folded a little to nice and could need a little work on the material and a bumpmap maybe.
The plastic chairs are great. :cheers:

[princedragoncok]

kwistenbiebel's design all the way. The final image caps it off. A fresh approach to kitchen design and beautiful rendering

[page]

I too was excited by this thread and had meant to finish a thought some many months ago. So here is my contribution..
I made the counter a bit higher ( about 36" ) I like this height its more intune with furniture than kitchen cabinets..
The counter is 3" all around. The back splash is glass to reflect the stone or concrete counter element in two directions to give the impression of a vast surface.
I also added a reveal at the sloped ceiling and demising walls to let the walls penetrate the ceiling to give the wall some individuality ( along with the color) and give the appearance of accending past the ceiling surface. There could be a light cove here as well directed to the side or even downward.

I tucked the refrigerastor and some wall ovens in the side cabinetry. I dont show a cooktop but one is intended near the back wall ( and upper cabinets which could conceal a draft hood) . I know the hood is not over the cooktop but I am certain that most hoods wood draw without pulling gas burner flames.

My SU output is not to the render quality of kwistenbiebel's but you will get the feel for my fiddlings.

[mehtapold]

perfect solution I think... feeling space better.
details needs solutions only...:)

mi.

[shmoolikipod]

What happened to the original poster Arrestme? I wonder if he finished his kitchen in real life ;).
r:


He asked to be arrested, maybe he got what he wanted.....

[csome]

As this thread is brought back to the attention on the PPB homepage as 'Not To Be Missed' it was great to check it again and relive the design discussion.
What happened to the original poster Arrestme? I wonder if he finished his kitchen in real life ;).

Anyway, I did some proposal in this thread and recently tried to re-render it as a 'dressed up' space (I threw in some IKEA stuff, the typical thing one would buy when low on budget ....errr besides the expensive Breuer chairs ;) ). Not the architectural finest, but fun anyway.

Here's that render:

Sorry i Get into this discussion, asomes designs by the way... you use artlantis for render? if you do please tellme taht i have a question for you! Thanks!

[glmorgan]

I had a loft with high ceilings, affording the ability to have the kitchen 3 risers above the main floor. As a person who liked to cook and entertain, being able to see out of the kitchen while working, but not seeing the goings on form the main level was the perfect solution. I do agree, a galley layout is better than the “U” shape.
Greg