a housing project for tropical humid climate

[mambo-jambo]

I was asked lately to do a planning to make a townhouse in Balikpapan, Indonesia. I will have to design a proposal for the housing, two storey 2-3 kinds of similar plan houses on a site of 100x100m (I will show you the site drawing later).

This townhouses will be for foreign workers who worked in Balikpapan, well, at least it will be offered to them.

How will the houses response to tropical humid climate?
is there anyone having similar project as a reference for me?
Thank you

:cheers:

[mambo-jambo]

100x100m site wide I have counted will be enough for about 30-40 houses, I think. To design a housing project for foreign workers, I might have to design something modern.

But how to manage and suit modern design with tropical humid design? there are certain aspects to consider, like roofing, it has to be able to deal with rain drops, reducing the humidity, etc....

[mambo-jambo]

I wonder wheter this topic is interesting for anyone...

[mambo-jambo]

This is the original site drawing given by my client. It's very much helping because the shape is totally square (he said). Right now I'm in the middle of designing the division of the site into how many houses I can build. Might be about 36 houses

[mambo-jambo]

the form of the house to be proposed

[mambo-jambo]

I intend the form to be quite modern but I still want to show the trace of tropical architecture by including common roofing form to the house. I use a style that I call that myself 'Geometrica'

[digdoi]

the form of the house to be proposed

Is that your initial proposal for the houses or just an example? What's the program for the houses?

[SWANK-E]

I intend the form to be quite modern....

sorry, what the hell does that mean?:confused:

[naught101]

why the "geometrica"? just cause it looks pretty? or does it have some function?

you, and everyone designing for a tropical climate, should check out Troppo Architecture, from Darwin. they do some amazing architecture up there, very regionalist, but clean and modern too. their ventilation systems are awesome. I wish I'd been there, I bet they are extremely comfortable.

their website is at http://www.troppoarchitects.com.au/

[beratulang]

Mambo jambo

Whoa

slow down man

you are jumping a gazillion miles ahead to conclusions

1. All you have is a site drawing which i presume to be a plan. If it is a plan then your site is NOT a square. Meaning you have gone ahead and started to design your site layout totally wrong.

2. You need a programme. Fine, you know it's going to be accomodation for foreign workers. What do you mean by that? Expatriates working in executive positions, or, like in my country, foreign brute labour (we have manual labourers from Pakistan, Myanmar, Laos, Philipines, Indonesia as well, etc.) You need to establish this bit of info before you can even begin to predict what they would want to live in.

3. You said town houses. What is your interpretation of a town house? Most municipalities have regulations on various types of housing, like apartments, hostels, detached houses, townhouses etc. Local building and town planning code would inform you what you can and cannot achieve on your site - for example, how wide your roads are, building set backs to adhere to, minimum sizes for habitable spaces, etc. You said that you 'think' the site can fit about 36 houses - is this after considering the above factors? Have you found out the allowable density, plot ratio, etc?

4. Knowing that your design should response to the local climate is a good thing. Not knowing how to response to the climate you live in is NOT a good thing. Did you complete any modules on tropical design, in college? Are you equipped to take on the project, given the complexity of it? Take up reading and searching libraries. Have you ever heard of Ken Yeang? I may not be of the opinion that his designs work all the time, or at all, but nevertheless, he's a good place to start educating yourself about tropical climate and how architecture can cater to it. Look into different materials and construction methods that you can learn from, to make your building a responsive one.

5. You said you might have to design something modern, and that you intend the form to be quite modern. Sounds to me like you have already DECIDED that you want to design something that LOOKS like modern architecture (if I read you correctly, from your other project). WHat is our defination of modern, anyway? Contemporary doesn't necessarily mean modernist.

I question your decision.

QUestion: What informed your decision? Do you think that foreign workers all like boxy white houses? Lots of westerners i know of, came to the tropics and they want to stay in houses that reflect the vernacular aspects of architecture and culture. It's actually the locals themselves who aspire to be like westerners and build like them - i call them copycats.

I mean, you should be VERY WELL AWARE of every decision you make and the REASON.

6. You also said, "i also want to show the trace of tropical architecture by including common roofing form"

The phrase "i want to" tells me that you decide what you want to do with the project without giving it a chance to tell you what it wants to be.

For example, did you study the existing site conditions, its immediate neighbourhood, the township's character, etc.? Or are you trying to insert a chinese pagoda in the Mexican desert, if you get what i mean.

does roofing form tell us whether it is tropical, mediterranean, or even arctic architecture? What is common roofing form, and what is uncommon? You are still bound by the visual effect of a design. Need to move beyond mere visuals.

You showed us the 'proposed house form' which looks like you already have an imagery of more or less how the house would look (again, it's the LOOKS that you stress). What about space planning? Does this have any importance at all in your design?

7. You have just done, again, what you did with your other project - there's a HUGE gap in your thinking process.

I think it's important that you go back to square one, and start over, if you want to be proud of this project.

[SWANK-E]

wow, beratulang... you are on fire lately! keep up the critiques!

[beratulang]

wow, beratulang... you are on fire lately! keep up the critiques!

thanks kev

been a while, but am excited bout having the clarity of mind again, to be able to read the threads and not just scan through.

Hopefully i'll be on a roll for a long time to come... muahahahahah:cheers:

[mambo-jambo]

Is that your initial proposal for the houses or just an example? What's the program for the houses?

no, it's still an example of the forming I might use for the houses. Still working on the real house design.

[mambo-jambo]

sorry, what the hell does that mean?:confused:

Hi swank E, Modern that I meant is not using traditional ornamentation

[mambo-jambo]

why the "geometrica"? just cause it looks pretty? or does it have some function?

you, and everyone designing for a tropical climate, should check out Troppo Architecture, from Darwin. they do some amazing architecture up there, very regionalist, but clean and modern too. their ventilation systems are awesome. I wish I'd been there, I bet they are extremely comfortable.

their website is at http://www.troppoarchitects.com.au/

Its my personal approach to designing... that mightbe everybody has special approach. I actually admire this geometrica to be used in forming, which have function, of course.

Nice website, I like it.

[mambo-jambo]

wow, beratulang... you are on fire lately! keep up the critiques!

I'm wishing on CONSTRUCTIVE replies, not a 'fireing' ones or DESTRUCTIVE ones. After reading some of destructive replies by those who are destructive, I prefer to ignore them. There's a difference between them, and surely I need to learn more to receive critics, but lets be constructive.

[msalvarez]

I'm wishing on CONSTRUCTIVE replies, not a 'fireing' ones or DESTRUCTIVE ones. After reading some of destructive replies by those who are destructive, I prefer to ignore them. There's a difference between them, and surely I need to learn more to receive critics, but lets be constructive.


I dont think this is "destructive" at all... sure beratulang could fluff it up (say things nicer) a bit but i think all his comments are straight to the point, and besides, putting things in a nicer package devalues the critisism.

If your professors are not tearing you up like this(i assume your a student or i remember u being a student) its time to think about what they are teaching you.

My advice, take it; learn from it. Dont take it personal; having a common interest, we all want each other to succeed.....i hope:wondering

[chedda]

I often find spending some time on a real in depth survey activates my design. At the moment your site is just a floating plot. Really look at everything that is there already contours, drainage, vegetation, animal life, sun path, soil type, photographs at different times, panoramas, other local buildings, even the history of the site. Perhaps even interview the new residents then with all this information at your disposal i believe you would be in a better position to crunch out a design. Also never take a critique badly it is good to provoke a reaction in any form. I guess by Geometrica you mean using simple forms such as circles, squares ,triangles etc in your design. Theses forms are powerful and pure and need to be justified. Good luck as this project continues.

[_C3]

Ok, I actually have some more important work to do... but when I come across stuff like this, I just can't help it, it's just to good to pass, so yes Mambo-jambo this is a really interesting subject for anyone designing in the tropics but also anywhere in the world as different climates should trigger different responses. This is particularly interesting for tropical climate in the developing world because those responses are not adressed yet or even taught. That's why I want to share my feeling about your project, and also because I know Indonesia, see and understand what's happening to this country architecturally speaking, and it makes me sick... so I'm going to tell... (see the desperate housewives influence here, just kidding!). Anyways I hope you won't take anything personal of what I'm about to say because I just want to help, and maybe get to a discussion where you can improve your design, this is the Pre-design discussion section after all.

So when you say:
I'm wishing on CONSTRUCTIVE replies, not a 'fireing' ones or DESTRUCTIVE ones. After reading some of destructive replies by those who are destructive, I prefer to ignore them. There's a difference between them, and surely I need to learn more to receive critics, but lets be constructive.

This is actually the most constructive comments you got in the whole thread, how more constructive could it be?... Beratulang actually did you a favor by pointing out all the aspects of the design phase you should be aware of before even starting. Not only you should ask those questions to yourself but you should actually tell us the answers so we can try to help you out here.

Now I admit he might have been a bit harsh on some points, but this is only because this is so true given the information we have. So I understand you are looking for some reference and tips on how to design and that's why you should'nt come up with your answer already setup in the question.

However, I'm not surprise by the way you're proceeding, because sadly, this is the way it works in here, but... this is not the right one! (There I said it!) So I'm not actually blaming you, but the system or actually the lack of it. Again that's why I want to reply to this thread, not only to help you but to show everybody how it works in here.

So here's what I think, I think you don't reply any of Beratulang questions, because you don't know what the answers are, and basically it doesn't matter for what you have to do, because some developer guy came to you and said here's a piece a land, I want you to put as many houses as you can on it, so to maximize profit, and just make the facade look good and modern, so it can attract expatriates working there, and basically the rest of the house doesn't really matter because it's just going to be a huge wall surrounding the complex. Moreover the comments from Chedda are really good as well, but I think there are not really helping you because I bet you've never been on location and also because of all the stuff I just mentioned above: Orientation, Existing Buildings, Vegetation, etc... doesn't really matter because the whole land is going to be poured in concrete with the houses facing inward and using their back as a seperation wall to the neighbours. There, I pretty much described what a townhouse is for indonesian and again let me reply to Beratulang for you on the question of regulations, that's a good one, there are NONE!... Well maybe there are, but just on paper, they don't really matter either.
Please Mambo-jambo, tell me if I'm wrong in any of the stuff I just said because I'm just guessing, maybe your case is different...

Now I would really like to help you because I want to change this kind of practise to produce good design because good climate responsive design cannot be achieved this way (in itself the townhouse principle is a bad design response), but you've got to be frank with us and tell us more about your project, try to answer the questions raised and maybe show us some pictures of the location if you have some.

I would actually even go further than Beratulang and ask yourself why do you want to do this job, because if you just want to design the common townhouse, likely what the client only knows and wants, you don't really need our help, it's pretty straight forward. But if you need our help into getting new thinking and other innovative ways, then I'll be glad to try helping. Maybe turn your attention first to some design responses from Troppo, Ken Yeang (as said earlier) and here are some more: Glenn Murcutt (of course, Marika Alderton House), Kerry Hill or SCDA Architects. Actually thank you again Beratulang for Ken Yeang, I didn't know him and actually don't know many Malaysian architects, could you give us some more good one (Malaysian).
I hope this is not too straight forward and you don't take it too personal but I had to tell about what is going on here...
Cheers.

[Juan Gomez-Velez]

mambo-jambo

Since we are talking about architecture, there are two ways to see this endeavor, from your perspective and from your sponsor's perspective. What is his? What does he want? What particular sector of the housing market are you catering ( as beratulang said so well ) to?

Once you reflect upon this, and if possible share it with us, I'm sure we can help you from another point of view, that of seeking a proper response to the requests of your sponsor.

Is this a high end , middle class or low income market? What are the current products being offered in your area addressing your target market? What would provide a different, appealing and profitable product?

This at least, is your assignment. Tha quality of the services you provide as well as that of the product you propose are also your responsability.

Saludos

Juan

[beratulang]

Hey thanks C3 for helping me to clarify my thoughts for mambo.

i do agree with most of your comments, and must say that what mambo is experiencing is really nothing new to the design community - we've all had to rely on bread and butter projects.

i didn't mean to be mean but was just stressing my points. I am also experiencing similar conditions in terms of what the clients and developers are interested in, and that we always have to ignore our context.

It's a classic case of if we don't do it, someone else will anyway, and they'll end up earning the money instead of us.

What i was trying to get at, in my crit, was that even given all the restrictions you've mentioned, we can still search for design parameters to guide us, and design in a responsive way to the project's brief - IMO mambo's not quite doing that yet.

Mambo, what i wrote was not harsh, it was just straight forward. Show me one sentence that you think i was being rude to you - and i'll be able to explain to you what the sentence really means - because i'm pretty sure you must have misread me. Or maybe you don't understand what i'm saying?

I'm into this project too, cos it involves issues close to my heart.

cos it's near me geographically, cos our countries share similarities, cos our climate's the same, cos i'm interested in the same issues - tropical climatic design, exploring cheap yet effective materials, experimenting with local language and culture, etc.

Be a generous chap - don't keep your thoughts to yourself - share them with us, i'm sure we'll all love you for it.

C3, there's also Jimmy Lim - check him out, he's into vernacular malay architecture and timber construction.

[mambo-jambo]

Thank you everyone... I'm still thinking. But it might be a little late for me to do this design, coz I have another thing to do in the mean time.

Beratulang, of course I listen to you. Thank you. Btw, I don't need nursery... and I always share my thoughts. Actually I need most on similar designs that you all have made. Maybe I will give you more info about the project... after a while having conversation with the owner, My task is to design how many houses is going to be available, the plan and the form of the building. I'm not completely blind with my own country's climate, of course. But the valuable thing that I think will be better if I consider to discuss in here most is the integration between geometrical forms and the climate (and I surely don't expect that there will be so many replies...

[mambo-jambo]

hese days I don't have enough time to read the posts, been doing something else. I got to review all the comments, including my wrong opinion about Beratulang ... again. Thank you everyone. Finally I get what you mean... after reading again what you say, many times. You're good Beratulang.

Maybe it's something inside my mind that wants to be better to understand more about my country's climate? I intend to share the topic because it's something that everyone should know and learn, I do too. I have read many books about tropical climate, this thread, for me, is just to enhance something that you and I've already know. I live in Indonesia and design in this country, I have known at least some points of designing in tropical climate like

- roofing,
- making terraces,
- split the houses,
- making ventilations to overcome humidity,
- some waterflow arrangements
- higher the ceiling
- etc

This topic is a great matter because I know the concept of townhouse is... no one knows exactly what it is, but this is what my client ask. And the fact that in Indonesia housing business is about comercialism, the better it looks, the more price. And also some issues in climate and how building should respond. The developers concern more on capital refund and profit, they do not really care about tropical climate.

[mambo-jambo]

The question of how to react to tropical climate is important enough for me. Maybe, it's just something inside my mind that keeps saying that I should consider to put something 'more' in my design, as well as in this thread. Honestly, the owner won't give enough consideration about anything about climate and how houses respond to it for he think architect have known this stuff (C3, we know it's wrong already). It doesn't matter for him because all he need is that I have to design something interesting and profitable. It's my idea to question everybody about the climate topic, and it's a pleasing duty for me. But then I think the answer of my question from 'how to design a house in tropical climate' changed to he 'wht's going on between you and Beratulang'. The previous project thread I post might be a picturesque of 'I think I was doing it diferently' I don't even had a second opinion, but again beratulang, you're good.

[mambo-jambo]

C3 is right, a guy came to me offering me to design a proposal of his new future townhouse, and I have no knowledge about the site (and Balikpapan is not clear enough in Google earth free) except from the site drawing that the owner gave me, that it will be offered to expatriates, that it's absolutely square, that it's for high end market. I have to build the surrounding 'facts' based upon my knowledge and memory about the area, and sometimes asking somebody who knows the area. But I have nothing else to do but making the proposal, which is a proposal for building license and also to see whether the owner attracted to continue my design. The design stage is not necessary for me to do that yet. If the owner agree to use my design, I will go to Balikpapan and see the site and work in a more complete team. It might be my mistake not to tell you earlier about the pre-design scope (sorry, but I'm new in this kind of forum... I have to fill the holes I left). But you can't change yet the system I have to go in, right? I cannot too, yet it always happened. This is the way we work before clearer regulation comes out. I suppose you are a more famous and experienced architect than I am, I think I guess it from the way you talk, if I'm not wrong, you don't have to design a proposal, everyone knows you can do it already. I'm in different stage.

[mambo-jambo]

Why I put the topic of tropical climate townhouse might be a splash of the calm water surface inside my mind, to try to get out of the small box. I have designed some houses, some, and I still have to learn again and again, what i got from school was not enough. But I'm not completely blind about this topic.

C3 said 'you might not need our help if you just want to design a common townhouse' something like that ... maybe I do , because I can sit in the library and read more, maybe more than what all of you will say (there's also the book of Ken yeang). Beratulang said 'mambo is experiencing is really nothing new to the design community - we've all had to rely on bread and butter projects.'

I feel this all conversation a bit loosen my appetite to share the work (it's not because of you C3 and Beratulang, but becoz of the overall thread doesn't feel fit anymore for me to discuss this while doing my design, I feel I'm not free in design process (do you see the label on my can; this is not suitable for every designers). Doing everything in limitation coz everything I said would be criticized like doing a project for a branch of brilliant critical building owners... oh no no no what a burden), somehow I think whatever design came out, everybody have known 'how to do it', right? I can already predict what you will say or criticize, somehow it's not interesting. Maybe I will post the result later, but I can't promise you either. But I will try my best to post my thoughts, to help us all comprehend more on the topic, like my theory of making healthier urban housing with the same cost compared to common urban housing design. I hope this will be enough to replace the focus of my design process (I sound like avoiding your critics... but I hope everyone understand my decision not to show the design process, at least yet)