Indoor swimming pool ceiling

[southwesteye]

Just want to survey approaches available to tackle the problem of exposure to chlorinated water vapour and the problems this causes to structures in a heated indoor lap pool, and particularly any ideas on material/ design of ceiling.

[tonyafc]

Magnesiacore is the ideal material for these types of application. The material is based on magnesium oxide which is a by-product in salt production and is inert to salt, chlorine and related chemicals. It can be handled, cut and installed like drywall. With stainless steel screws and the right chlorine resistant taping compound and a good vapour barrier it should not be difficult to apply to the interiors of pool areas. www.magnesiacore.com

[franjayo]

Here is an interesting solution:
Newmat (http://www.newmatusa.com/newmat/2400/project8/p8.html)

Plycem is a brand like others which produce a fiber cement board resistant to water and fire.

Plycem (http://www.plycem.com/esp/paises.shtml)

I consider the problem for these materials to be the supporting frame detail or grid and the joints. This is the same kind of problem that you would probably have with Magnesiacore, although I do not know Magnesiacore. The companies sell panels, but you need to design a support, the rigid panels are not good to try to form a continuous surface because when you try to cover the joints they tend to surface with time. Even trying to cover them with fiberglass tape, so I would let the panel joints be part of the design.

Chicago Metallic recently started producing in Mexico a very inexpensive perlite ceiling system that is quite good resisting water, although brittle:

EuroStone (http://www.chicagometallic.com/product_frameset.asp?product=&region=1&company=29&division=28&viewby=none&prodid=81&menuitem=96&rowcount=18)

The photos at the Chicago Metallic site are quite bad, but the actual material looks very good in the Terric, Montreaux or Cresta styles.

[tonyafc]

...to form a continuous surface because when you try to cover the joints they tend to surface with time. Even trying to cover them with fiberglass tape, so I would let the panel joints be part of the design.


Magnesiacore can also be Tongue and Grooved and installed with buttered & filled joints to avoid tape and related work.

[spadestick]

why not eliminate chlorine altogether?

http://www.carefreeclearwater.com/

Clean Pure Water Without Toxic Chemicals
Swim In Pure Mineral Water
Eliminate Daily Dosing and Handling of Chemicals
NASA Developed Technology
Save Thousands in Future Chemical Costs
Lifetime Warranty

The Carefree Clearwater systems based on NASA’s Apollo-era technology electronically release copper and silver ions into the water to destroy bacteria and algae—which are then filtered out. Unlike chlorine, the ions do not dissipate from heat and sunlight, therefore they are capable of providing a very stable sanitizer residual. The ionization technology substantially reduces the demand for chlorine so that fewer chloramines are formed and fewer chemicals are consumed. This cuts down on undesirable side effects realized in swimming pool environments, such as burning eyes, odor, and bleached or dry skin and hair. Furthermore, the ions pose no health risks, as scientists contend that chlorine can react chemically with organic materials in water to form a class of carcinogenic substances called trihalomethanes.

Here's the best part. You can go swimming, step out of the pool, and you don't have to take a shower after that!

[Jimmern]

Structurally, remember that steel is a pretty poor choice for swimming pools as chlorine and steel do not go very well together. Even the most rigorous paint system will likely have issues and need vigilant inspection to prevent rust. This would effect your choice of ceiling material if you need to get behind it to inspect your steel every now and then. Wood (solid wood or laminated structural members) seem a better choice as chlorine doesn't effect wood (but remember to specify high quality connectors!).

If you are designing a public facility then you cannot count on them using something other than Chlorine. There are a number of alternative systems out there, but according to our consultants almost all of them are more expensive when it comes to running costs, and/or require more mechanical space. One of the better systems when it comes to 'environmental friendliness' is a filter that uses sand, but the mechanical room requiremens are much larger, and you've got to have fresh sand delivered/removed regularly. For a private indoor pool with less 'load' you can probably pull off an alternative water cleaning system that doesn't use chlorine.

When it comes to ceiling materials, the other thing you might consider are acoustics. Pool rooms ususally end up with a lot of hard surfaces and the ceiling is often the 'easiest' place to add absorbtion. Look into materials that will help absorb sound for your ceiling.

Jim

[nicholas]

why not eliminate chlorine altogether?

http://www.carefreeclearwater.com/

Clean Pure Water Without Toxic Chemicals
Swim In Pure Mineral Water
Eliminate Daily Dosing and Handling of Chemicals
NASA Developed Technology
Save Thousands in Future Chemical Costs
Lifetime Warranty

The Carefree Clearwater systems based on NASA’s Apollo-era technology electronically release copper and silver ions into the water to destroy bacteria and algae—which are then filtered out. Unlike chlorine, the ions do not dissipate from heat and sunlight, therefore they are capable of providing a very stable sanitizer residual. The ionization technology substantially reduces the demand for chlorine so that fewer chloramines are formed and fewer chemicals are consumed. This cuts down on undesirable side effects realized in swimming pool environments, such as burning eyes, odor, and bleached or dry skin and hair. Furthermore, the ions pose no health risks, as scientists contend that chlorine can react chemically with organic materials in water to form a class of carcinogenic substances called trihalomethanes.

Here's the best part. You can go swimming, step out of the pool, and you don't have to take a shower after that!

There is a crazy Australian guy running a small hotel for surfers (mainly) in Cimaja (West Java); he has used a similar, self developed system for the pool for a decade with great success...

[tonyafc]

When it comes to ceiling materials, the other thing you might consider are acoustics. Pool rooms ususally end up with a lot of hard surfaces and the ceiling is often the 'easiest' place to add absorbtion. Look into materials that will help absorb sound for your ceiling.

Magnesiacore has superior accoustic dampening properties as well...

[spadestick]

Jimmern, you haven't fully read into this alternative system I suggested. It's relatively low cost as compared to what you have described and it is an add-on system, meaning an upgrade. And it doesn't require much space, only a re-routing of a pipe through an add-on small device to the existing pool system. I'm recommending it due to the satisfaction ALL clients have given using this product. It's quite fantastic really.

[Jimmern]

This might be opening up a can of worms, I'm pretty new here myself and haven't posted hundreds of times or anything, but I like what I see here and feel that I am growing to be a part of the Pushpullbar community, which I like.

I'm just wondering what the rest of you at Pushpullbar feel about comments that are here to push products? I note that Tonyafc is pretty active on mentioning Magnesiacore in this thread, and a quick look at his public profile shows www.magnesiacore.com as his homepage. Although I'm sure that this product is usefull and can be used for all of the purposes above, I get the uneasy feeling that this borders on "spam" or paid product endorsement instead of just healthy active community participation.

I appreciate the tip, but when posting about your own product, perhaps it would be nice to see a signature that says something like "representative of magnesiacore" or something like that to keep everything above board??


Jim

*Edit* A little digging shows that this question has come up before. I suppose I am just a little leary of "sales advice" and "friendly advice" getting mixed up. Tonyafc has obviously been making a contribution around here.

[tonyafc]

I would like to clarify that I am not a material salesman. I am developing a new construction material of my own and discussions on forums like this helps me find out what is more important to design architects and which countries to invest in reaching. I am respectful of commercial content on forums and do not want to appear like I am pushing or selling anything.

[ReD]

Just stumbled on this thread & would like to endorse an Ionisation system

I think Centre Parcs uses this system & you can stay in the water all day without it affecting your eyes