View Full Version : 10 floor building-place santa fe
hello this building was created with the idea to continue with the existing -created for us too- and become like one building, so I split the design in 2, the left side copy the old one, and the right side with a cylindrical shape which I though was perfect for the corner of the street.
The floor plans are really simple, and orthogonal shape in all the functional areas, just the balconies are made with curves.
Now we change the concrete balconies for glass, īcause I consider the concrete will become an obstacle for the inside view.
I will add the new image later and the pics which I took yesterday from the contruction site.
Doubs or something let me know!
another photo of the front
I donīt know why doesnīt work before.
ajwtaylor
23-06-2006, 20:44
i just know what its like to do it wrong :D and have the moderators telling you
looks interesting so far mate
primocordara
23-06-2006, 21:58
Buena Buba:rock on:
I see you left an old facade on the side street, and I remember another project in PPB1 from Rosario that had the same feature, is it something that the municipality favours, or just your choice?
Ah, and of course, THE KMZ :D !
both, but the facade was kinda cool to keep it, so we did
this is the stage of the building as now, canīt see too much but I want to upload anyway
It looks like it will look quite interesting. I like it.
franjayo
26-06-2006, 01:11
I would like to see the plans better to understand how it works, it is quite tight. Maybe a post for each a floor plan. It does not show a 4th plan? How many apartments 16? 18? 9 parking slots total? Where are the mechanical? Elevator room, electrical power, cistern? I cannot see them in the ground floor.
I would like to see the plans better to understand how it works, it is quite tight. Maybe a post for each a floor plan. It does not show a 4th plan? How many apartments 16? 18? 9 parking slots total? Where are the mechanical? Elevator room, electrical power, cistern? I cannot see them in the ground floor.
ok dude I will upload the info youīre asking for
I donīt have the acad floor plans over here so I will post the last floor plans but big this time. ok the building require just 9 vehicles establish by our municipal rules, and it needs a water tank reservorium, locate under the stairs, it will storage part of the water the building require, with an engine who pump the water to the main tank locate on the roof. Also we are thinking to add a water fountain in the corner next to vehicleīs entrance. And the appartments are different, we have four 3 bedrooms locate one in the 1st floor, 2 on the next 2 floors and other one more in the 10th, eight 2 bedrooms and six 1 bedroom. We just need 1 elevator taking care the number of people who will reside. The building is destinate to middle social class.
here I have the combination between 2 and 3 floors with the lavatories still on the front, hide by the concrete balcony
actually the 4th floor is kinda different in the back balconies, a lit bit big than this ones, the rest is the same
this one is different, it will be the expensive one!
fmolanphy
27-06-2006, 05:05
Buba, question....could you post the dimensions for the space on the bathroom areas....seems access is pretty tight....aslo, would you think it would help to trade some balcony space for more bathroom space?
Im really no fan of balconies, seldom used in my country...people always ask for them but at the end no one uses them.....
seems pretty awesome how every space actually has opportunity for views!
franjayo
27-06-2006, 05:11
Buba,
Thank you very much. I can understand the way the building works much better now. It has a very interesting volumetric solution, it would be interesting to try to introduce some green areas across floor levels into these external terraces. The transitions from old to new and rectangular to circular are very well done.
It is extremely interesting to know what the local requirements such as parking are. It would not be possible to do that here, even in areas with acces to a subway system. But the subway system in Buenos Aires is very old and reliable, I guess that has an effect on parking requirements.
GinSoakedBoy
27-06-2006, 12:44
There are things in this project that i like there are other things that i don't.
I like the language of the facade, altought i donīt really understand why you kept that old facade, in front of the cilindrical side, since it's not really that imbued in the building.
At the parking zone, i think that there are insuficiente parking spaces, but i am saying this based on the standard that by house there are at least 1 to 2 cars.
In the floor planing there's just one detail that really bugs me, the opening of the entrance door directly to the living room without any protection.
primocordara
27-06-2006, 12:51
Good project Buba, adreses a very comon situation in LAmerican cities (high rise amid old city blocks) the evolution of the old "colonial" block to mid rise and high rise.
I would critizice you the facade you left on the side, but it is done here too, and it does work while the rest of the block has old houses, and could be demolished after as the block transforms.
One question, can high rise be built atached to your project in the adjacent lot?
BTW I don't like those pink cars!:D
primocordara
27-06-2006, 13:36
A balcony with a "parrilla" to make "asados" is a definite plus here!
One car per apartment or even less is enough here too.
Buba, perhaps you could show us the urban surroundings, since they have conditioned yuor project so much.
BTW Santa Fe is hi-res, KMZ is mandatory!
BTW Santa Fe is hi-res, KMZ is mandatory!
What you didn't find it alredy? You're loosing your touch Primo!
I like the language of the facade, altought i donīt really understand why you kept that old facade, in front of the cilindrical side, since it's not really that imbued in the building.
I don't particularly know how this case is, but mostly you're required to maintain the facade as a skin and build behind it. This usually brings the problem of what to do in a second floor behind that, where you won't be able to open windows.
But the subway system in Buenos Aires is very old and reliable, I guess that has an effect on parking requirements.
But it's not Buenos Aires! Although they have a bus system in Sta. Fé, but I don't know how well it works.
Now I have some questions. The size of the living room and diner look really tight. 3,05 m width minus circulation space (more or less 90 cm) leaves you with a very thin space. On the other hand bedrooms look kind of generous. Wouldn't it have been better to do larger living spaces?
GinSoakedBoy
27-06-2006, 14:53
I don't particularly know how this case is, but mostly you're required to maintain the facade as a skin and build behind it. This usually brings the problem of what to do in a second floor behind that, where you won't be able to open windows.
That reminded me of the house in Alenquer project by Aires Mateus found in this topic (http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3349&page=2&highlight=Aires+Mateus)
primocordara
27-06-2006, 14:56
Tough one caca, with our monotonous colonial grid!
I would personaly eliminate the "guest" bathroom in favour of a bigger kitchen.
I do like big bedrooms, since kids / teenagers spend a lot of time there in this kind of apartments (old days when all the family would watch 4 chanels on ONE BW TV are gone, my kids laugh when I tell them that!)
primocordara
27-06-2006, 14:59
you can see the same facade feature in this CULTURAL CENTRE in PARAGUAY (http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=487&highlight=paraguay)
Same urban grid too, CArdus and Decumanus, remember?
GinSoakedBoy
27-06-2006, 15:05
Yes but in that cultural center in Paraguay the old facade was integrated in the building design, and when it's well integrated it can lead to some very interesting results.
There's no other way to put things after all it's the same base.
arrestme
27-06-2006, 15:46
I donīt have the acad floor plans over here so I will post the last floor plans but big this time. ok the building require just 9 vehicles establish by our municipal rules, and it needs a water tank reservorium, locate under the stairs, it will storage part of the water the building require, with an engine who pump the water to the main tank locate on the roof. Also we are thinking to add a water fountain in the corner next to vehicleīs entrance. And the appartments are different, we have four 3 bedrooms locate one in the 1st floor, 2 on the next 2 floors and other one more in the 10th, eight 2 bedrooms and six 1 bedroom. We just need 1 elevator taking care the number of people who will reside. The building is destinate to middle social class.
The parking space to the right when you enter the garage through the gate/port looks like a bit of a squeeze, doesnt it? Also the doors from the palier out in the garage looks a bit dangerous. Otherwise a cool project.
Tough one caca, with our monotonous colonial grid!
Just kidding, I couldn't find even if he gave me the adress....
Im really no fan of balconies, seldom used in my country...people always ask for them but at the end no one uses them.....
seems pretty awesome how every space actually has opportunity for views!
I think you would find this to be true because balconies are usually poorly designed and are an after thought... they usually are undersized to be more than just a place to stand outside... they aren't usually designed to be a place to be used as a space...
Pattern language speaks on this and recomends a minumum of 6 feet of depth for it to be a properly functioning space... otherwise it will usually not be used...
Granted I haven't had the time yet to soak in this design by Bubba... I will though and give me 2 cents about it...
Welcome to the forum, Buba.
Not easy to post a project here for the first time, but once you did here's my two cents...
Although I don't like the combination of the circular and square volumes, that's personal taste and I think your facade is well resolved. But for me the plans are really not.
1. The bathrooms seems impossible to work, but maybe it's a problem of scale of the elements in the plan. In some of them the sink and the bathtub seem to have the same width...:wondering
And is really necessary to have a bidet?
2. I agree with Caca that the living spaces should be bigger.
3. The laundry spaces in the balconies is very unusual for me. Is it common where you live? Here balconies are considered noble spaces while laundry is a service space that usually is placed as hidden as possible.
4. All the entrance doors open directly on circulation. The second door of the "expensive unit" is the worse, you can hit someone passing in the corridor when you open it!:eek:
5. The bigger unit have closely the same footprint that two other units, but the spaces doesn't look bigger. The kitchen is small and that bathroom next to it is so small that it can't have a door. Maybe the terrace could be diminished to increase the size of the living room.
I'm going to answer a couple of these since they are argentinian issues.
The laundry in the balcony is a very common thing here. The thing is that it's comfortable to have the laundry next to the kitchen to do both things at the same time. This brings a dichotomy in the position of this space: You would want to hide it, but you can't because it's next to the kitchen, and you also need an open space next to it to hang clothes for drying, but not an extra balcony.
Bidet is a must in any full bathroom here, not by code, but by common usage. I guess we are anal people LOL
Also, couldn't the palier in the last floor dissapear and integrate that space into the appartment? You could also continue with that line towards the balcony in the back and enlarge the whole space.
Bidet is a must in any full bathroom here, not by code, but by common usage. I guess we are anal people LOL
:D :D :D :D :D
The laundry in the balcony is a very common thing here. The thing is that it's comfortable to have the laundry next to the kitchen to do both things at the same time. This brings a dichotomy in the position of this space: You would want to hide it, but you can't because it's next to the kitchen, and you also need an open space next to it to hang clothes for drying, but not an extra balcony.
Thanks for the answers, caca. Actually in Brazil we also use to place the laundry next to the kitchen, but usually we have the kitchen opening to the living/dining and the laundry with a service door opening to the external hall (the "maid entrance"). Attached is a plan with the typical solution adopted around here (not trying to hijack the thread, I just find interesting the different ways of organizing space in different places):
primocordara
27-06-2006, 22:37
JAJA, yes, in Brazil you can make the maids room without windows! (and I guess smaller than the minimum bedroom)
Also, a family in this apartment would rarely have a sleeping maid.
I don't know why, but in Argentina and Uruguay a bidet is a standard feature, even in cramped bathrooms!
JAJA, yes, in Brazil you can make the maids room without windows! (and I guess smaller than the minimum bedroom)
Also, a family in this apartment would rarely have a sleeping maid.
I don't know why, but in Argentina and Uruguay a bidet is a standard feature, even in cramped bathrooms!
True! besides how do you clean your ass? It's disgusting to just wipe it with paper, you can never clean it well. :puke: :puke:
The hierachy of spaces in your example is quite different though. In this layout the kitchen is though as more of a living space integrated with the rest of the "public" area of the house than a service area. There's several examples of that kind of organization here, but for larger appartments. Even the higher end appartments in zones like Puerto Madero in Buenos Aires tend to be more like this one.
primocordara
28-06-2006, 00:12
True! besides how do you clean your ass? It's disgusting to just wipe it with paper, you can never clean it well. :puke: :puke:
.
ajj, these dirty-ass barbarous!:D
JAJA, yes, in Brazil you can make the maids room without windows! (and I guess smaller than the minimum bedroom)
Also, a family in this apartment would rarely have a sleeping maid.
I don't know why, but in Argentina and Uruguay a bidet is a standard feature, even in cramped bathrooms!
Hey, I didn't say that it's a good plan! I'm just trying to show the most usual resolution used here. Maid bedrooms is something you rarely see these days indeed, this plan is probably a little old (I just googled "apartment plan" in portuguese and picked randomly).
About the bidet, also very rare. Only most traditional high end apartments have bidet, the most used now is the douche:
primocordara
28-06-2006, 02:26
Ok , Fabio, you can buy this here too, but for some reason people does not want it.
I agree its a waste of space, I have only one bidet in my house, but had to realy convince the family there is no need for one in EVERY BATHROOM!
BTW is it used elsewere in the world? I assume dans "La France" for its name??
Buba, question....could you post the dimensions for the space on the bathroom areas....seems access is pretty tight....aslo, would you think it would help to trade some balcony space for more bathroom space?
Im really no fan of balconies, seldom used in my country...people always ask for them but at the end no one uses them.....
seems pretty awesome how every space actually has opportunity for views!
Hello dude, about your question Iīm with you, but the dimensions where specificated by the invest group, and they told me exactly what they want, here the money takes the priority place, and sometimes the spaces are reduce to the maximun, if you can increase at least one more appartment, so all the time is a fight with the inversionists, and always has the same end... money wins. I know is kinda sad, but thatīs the way it is, is the only way for me to build.
There are things in this project that i like there are other things that i don't.
I like the language of the facade, altought i donīt really understand why you kept that old facade, in front of the cilindrical side, since it's not really that imbued in the building.
At the parking zone, i think that there are insuficiente parking spaces, but i am saying this based on the standard that by house there are at least 1 to 2 cars.
In the floor planing there's just one detail that really bugs me, the opening of the entrance door directly to the living room without any protection.
First of all thanks for the interest, the idea to keep the old facade wasnīt intentional at all, was a municipal requirement, but I found it no so bad after all, īcause maybe would be interesting, so first of all I tried to make a building taking care about it, I mean with some details who reffer the old facadeīs style, but the inversionist doesnīt like at all to do that and they force me to do a different building, for example in the clean white wall over the old facade, that wall used to have horizontal stripes like the old facade, and maybe I convince them to do it, so lets see.
About the parking zone, thatīs all we need here with our municipal rules, 1 car for 2 appartments.
And yes about the entrance, I know is not so nice, but here all the m2 cares a lot, all the spaces need to be funcional 100% if they donīt they will remove for sure, no body want to pay for useless spaces, their unswer is "I donīt care Iīm not gonna live there, take off that" always.
Good project Buba, adreses a very comon situation in LAmerican cities (high rise amid old city blocks) the evolution of the old "colonial" block to mid rise and high rise.
I would critizice you the facade you left on the side, but it is done here too, and it does work while the rest of the block has old houses, and could be demolished after as the block transforms.
One question, can high rise be built atached to your project in the adjacent lot?
BTW I don't like those pink cars!:D
Actually on the next block we are thinking to do another building, taking care the old facade 2 so that would be the nexus in between, and for sure I will take distance from this one, I want to let it be like a tower
What you didn't find it alredy? You're loosing your touch Primo!
I don't particularly know how this case is, but mostly you're required to maintain the facade as a skin and build behind it. This usually brings the problem of what to do in a second floor behind that, where you won't be able to open windows.
But it's not Buenos Aires! Although they have a bus system in Sta. Fé, but I don't know how well it works.
Now I have some questions. The size of the living room and diner look really tight. 3,05 m width minus circulation space (more or less 90 cm) leaves you with a very thin space. On the other hand bedrooms look kind of generous. Wouldn't it have been better to do larger living spaces?
haha ok about your tight living rooms, of course is not so big, but trust me, here all these kind of buildings has those spaces and if you add more meters, that cost you more, and now here is sicking competitive, so you will no found any market for your building, that decition let you out for sure, īcause the people here count until the last cent to pay the appartment, of course this kind of appartment, middle social class. Is kinda hard to understand but the reality here is hard too
I'm going to answer a couple of these since they are argentinian issues.
The laundry in the balcony is a very common thing here. The thing is that it's comfortable to have the laundry next to the kitchen to do both things at the same time. This brings a dichotomy in the position of this space: You would want to hide it, but you can't because it's next to the kitchen, and you also need an open space next to it to hang clothes for drying, but not an extra balcony.
Bidet is a must in any full bathroom here, not by code, but by common usage. I guess we are anal people LOL
Also, couldn't the palier in the last floor dissapear and integrate that space into the appartment? You could also continue with that line towards the balcony in the back and enlarge the whole space.
Thanks for reply all the questions, but I need to add something, the idea of the 2nd door is common here 2 itīs a service door straight to kitchen, and the user require that door without discussion, and I need to tell, the architecture here is really different from other places, for the fact "money" sounds really sad like I said before, but sometimes the architect is more like economist than artist and for sure we need to cede, is the only way to build over here. ahaha I will up load another proyects from other studios, that will let you and idea about what Iīm talking about haahha
About the palier I forgot to add the roof terrace, with a solarium, so I need the palier like a public place, that was the reason why.
:D :D :D :D :D
Thanks for the answers, caca. Actually in Brazil we also use to place the laundry next to the kitchen, but usually we have the kitchen opening to the living/dining and the laundry with a service door opening to the external hall (the "maid entrance"). Attached is a plan with the typical solution adopted around here (not trying to hijack the thread, I just find interesting the different ways of organizing space in different places):
For example this kind of floor plan organization is imposible to do over here the cost will be HUGE! no body could buy this kind of appartment for sure, and the people who would have the money will go straigh to a nice house :D
just the balcony is different
Ok this is the status by now of the picīs building I posted before.
Ok this is the status by now of the picīs building I posted before.
Thanks for the update Buba... looking forward to seeing more... and I wonder how people's opinions will change once you can show us how the real thing comes out...
ddelcast
23-10-2006, 05:39
The layout plan of this building is quite similar to the middle income buildings that are being built all around my home town (Lima, Peru). I don't quite agree with the layout since it is quite cramped but selling prices are so low that in order to make your proyect profitable you ahev to do something like this... I am also designing (for business) a building with similar characteristics (will post soon) and the apartments will sell for 65,000 US$ which is quite a low price; but prices are quite competitive so you have to be hyper-efficient. My only real crit for the design would be that the entrance opens straight to the corridor and that the baths are quite cramped (actually our municipallity would never aprove something like that...), the rooms are small but that is standard.... To me (and this is quite personal) the design for the facade is not as interesting as it can be (the cilinder vs the box looks weird)... but considering it is a middle income building (and I understand the intricancies of that) ...I think you've done a pretty good job...
Pedro Barradas
23-10-2006, 20:20
BTW is it used elsewere in the world? I assume dans "La France" for its name??
Just see this... Primo... in Portugal the BIDET (BIDÉ) is a standard... you must have at least one... integrated in the full bathroom.
Buba nice to see the building comming up... but still think is to "stylish"... it have too much stuff...
primocordara
23-10-2006, 21:09
Just see this... Primo... in Portugal the BIDET (BIDÉ) is a standard... you must have at least one... integrated in the full bathroom.
Buba nice to see the building comming up... but still think is to "stylish"... it have too much stuff...
from WIKIPEDIA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet)
"Bidets are common bathroom fixtures in some European countries (especially Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal), some Latin American countries (especially Argentina and Uruguay; there they are found in approximately 90% of households), the Middle East and some parts of Asia (particularly in India). Oddly enough, though France be the country where the word bidet originated, not every house is equipped with one, especially the smaller or cheaper flats."
I can guess now who have cleaner asses arround here..:D
from WIKIPEDIA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet)
"Bidets are common bathroom fixtures in some European countries (especially Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal), some Latin American countries (especially Argentina and Uruguay; there they are found in approximately 90% of households), the Middle East and some parts of Asia (particularly in India). Oddly enough, though France be the country where the word bidet originated, not every house is equipped with one, especially the smaller or cheaper flats."
I can guess now who have cleaner asses arround here..:D
I can safely report that bidets are not common in India even in the super rich homes!! But 'washers' (as opposed to 'wipers') that we are, nowadays it is mostly dealt with a health faucet (spray) or a nozzle jet. Earlier it used to be the ubiquitous mug and a tap!!. No getting up from one pot to the other...:P
Funny, to start my first post on such a 'clean' note?
gaffaman
24-10-2006, 17:01
Funny, to start my first post on such a 'clean' note?
Well, don't be shy. :D And welcome to the forum.
from WIKIPEDIA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet)
"Bidets are common bathroom fixtures in some European countries (especially Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal), some Latin American countries (especially Argentina and Uruguay; there they are found in approximately 90% of households), the Middle East and some parts of Asia (particularly in India). Oddly enough, though France be the country where the word bidet originated, not every house is equipped with one, especially the smaller or cheaper flats."
I can guess now who have cleaner asses arround here..:D
I use the "three sea shells". Don't you know how to use them?
primocordara
24-10-2006, 19:43
I use the "three sea shells". Don't you know how to use them?
Stalone told me once....
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