Chapel of Projection

[Richard]

CHAPEL OF PROJECTION

INTROUCTION

I've always been inspired by the various designs for churches and chappels on PPB and PPB1, particularly those from Juan and Franscico, and more recently a thread of Artlantis renderings of the "Church of Light", that structure itself inspired me to undertake two things:

1. Consider for myself what christian beliefs mean to me as an aethiest reflected into a structure for which the purpose is for use as a place of reflection, prayer, choir, sermen, etc (please excuse my ignorance but there could be heaps of other churchy things that could apply but hey not my favourite hang), and

2. Place this structure in a scene that would enable me to develop my skills with Artlantis. For another thread - NOT THIS ONE!

PURPOSE

I've have always been an aethiest!

Until recent years with the death of my mother and more recently life partner I had even sought texts supporting the disproof of christian religions. Not so much to challange but to defend my right to not believe in a creator or greater power, rather in shear luck, physics and time!

I say until recent as I have I guess become more certain as to the reason such beliefs exist, and why so many prescribe to what I saw then and yep still see as amazing that any sane person could. With this certainty however comes a great tolerance, understanding and want to have possibly chosen a path now not open to me!

I'm sorry I don't mean that anyone who has such a belief is insane infact my view as to why such beliefs and writings developed was originally to allow us some respite in ideals that avoid stresses and unknowns that would once have infested a society with mental illness and greater discourse at times of death. Particularly in times of disease or plague and lack of scientific understanding.

Reflecting on my own experience with the loss of a partner, if I had children the option of pursuading them down the same road of non-belief, would not be such an easy one to take!

What does this mean? Well I feel christianity projects an image of a creator / heaven with the intent of providing it's followers ideals that all is for reason and all will end well! What I'm saying is, that's my belief and I have no issue in why someone would do so!!

I'm not trying to spark debate on religion just on my interpretation of how this reflects in a structure designed for the purpose of those who I understand chose to walk that path.

LOCATION ETC

As this is a project of self indulgence I'd didn't set any parameters on location scale, context, use or denomination!

GOAL

To demonstrate that I fully appreciate the ideals of what christian beliefs offer yet show my own view "that these are beliefs are projected for this purpose". I also wanted to turn table, my feelings are we should encourage christans through this structure of purpose to prove me wrong by accepting to view there beliefs looking inward and seeing it reflected in that around us not staring upward toward the projection.

The Structure is open as I always feel myself the enclosure of a church or chapel although providing shelter and protection for the carry out of purpose alienates those within from the elements that enable us better to appreciate ourselves as part of a whole. I believe enclosure leads to greater segregation and belief in right is only within this house!

PLEASE TRY AND NOT GET TO HEAVY ON THE STATEMENTS I HAVE MADE AND PLEASE NO OFFENCE IS INTENDED TO ANYONE OF ANY DENOMINATION!

Modelled SU
Rendered Art R
Resized only PS

[Richard]

Another - Night time external light. This image aims to demostrate both my view of "Projection" and also to which I feel this image should be viewed downward to within and in reflection of context.

Rendered Art R
Resized only PS

AA for both these images is a little poor as they were rendered at approx this size, silly me! Actually I just went to export a better res image of the last and realised both these images were exported at the default lowest settings for everything, wouldn't have imagined.

[Pedro Barradas]

Richard, I really like your design, I thruly understand the message you want to transmit... this chapel/ monument is amazing, very strong....

:cheers: :cheers: :clap:

[2kemon]

Well, Richard!

First of all your story is important for us to understand your intentions with the design, and I can personally relate to many of your "issues" with omnipotent beliefs and what drives people to and away from these. But that's another forum i guess!

You've definately set up an appropriate dramatic scene with the insight being projected directly towards the 'users', in lack of a better word.

I'm affraid I'm not quite sure what's alter and what's bench, but as I understand it you're facing the upwards projected field of vision, correct? Looking up in the sky where nothing (almost) disturbes your search of understanding and answers?

I personally think, the story would have been clearer without the small holes/windows in on the sides of the tube'. Do they serve some kinda special purpose I haven't understood?

As for the rendering work, the materials looks pretty good to me, but maybe it would be interesring to se a bit more dramatic light? I don't know if it would be too corny to assist with spots or something like that, but for playing around with Artlantis renderings, I think it could make some killer-shots...

Anyways. Thank you for a nice interesting post for my morning coffee here at school. It sure beats the newspaper :)

Good work!

[nandish]

Richard i love it. Its interesting the wayyou trasformed the church of light with your own original concept.
Water looks very real.

For me the cross looks little delicate and thin.

And was wondering about the railing on the rectangular island. Maybe a solid block, it will definately add on to the mass.

Other than that an excellent design and execution.:clap: :clap:


( Swank - E -- Is this fine for you )

[dhaa]

GOAL

To demonstrate that I fully appreciate the ideals of what christian beliefs offer yet show my own view "that these are beliefs are projected for this purpose". I also wanted to turn table, my feelings are we should encourage christans through this structure of purpose to prove me wrong by accepting to view there beliefs looking inward and seeing it reflected in that around us not staring upward toward the projection.

I'm not sure If I understand this statement correctly - but the way I understand it is the opposite of what 2kemon is saying.

or say the structure is concieved to direct the "user's'" view downwards, towards the surroundings (which form part of his world) to force him to look for understanding in these familiar things which help him concentrate on his inside, ... rather than project his prayers and beliefs towards the sky and kind of rely on some kind of ideals.

it has something to do with the famous Plato's allegory of the cave, or rather its negation? I find this thinking very suitable for today's world and very close to my view of it.

the design perfectly reflects the intentions. (again if I understand it right)

thank you, richard

[GinSoakedBoy]

For me religion is about choice, much because my parents always allowed me to choose what i wanted to believe/follow, for many reasons, my education was mostly christian, but i fell apart from the institution exactly because i didn´t identified with the attitude of "this is only true way".

Anyway, returning to the topic at hand. The chapel for me has some problems regarding the circulation of people, but since it's a hypothetical project i am guessing that is not one of the main issues.
As for the ideals of christian views... well it's about love, respect, and selfsacrifice for others, at least for me, anyone please correct me if am wrong.

[MICHEL]

Richard, it's good to hear someone talking about christianity, and beliefs in genaral, with such an open minded view. I understand you went through hard times lately and those are probably times when one comes to think about the meaning of things in life, and death...
Speaking of the project, I don't think one has to be a christian to design a church of course... The fact that you clearly stated to be an aethiest makes your chapel even more interessting. I somehow embodies your own personnal vision of 'Projection'. Designing a chapel, or a church, or any religious structure, leeds you to interessting questions such as "what's my relationship towards 'God'"... Your chapel reminds me of a church (where I got married...) where the altar is actually lower than the 'attendance' (dunno which word to use here...). This inverted configuration is crucial to me, and that's the main reason I (we) have choosen to get married there. I often feel unconfortable in more "classical" churches because of the submission attitude they generate (axial entry towards the altar, altar at higher level... etc...). This "demonstration of power" is somehow against the humility preached by most religions, at least the Christian one... just my 2 cents of course...
Now, from an humble :D "architectural" point of view, I'm not totally convinced by the reflecting pool where the cross stands. The chapel is already on water! Btw, you probably know Tadao Ando's CHURCH ON THE WATER (http://cat2.mit.edu/arc/gallery/4203_final/gal_altsai/andohome.html). Maybe the idea of 'projection' could be pushed even further if the concrete cross could project its shade through the chapel itself onto the water. Just wondering if the project couldn't be stronger if you emphasize the floating aspect, or 'coming out of water' aspect... :wondering
I appreciate your approach, both 'spiritual' and 'architectural'. Well done for the pics! ...and finally, I hope you have, or are about, to come out of the hard days you described. Cheers :cheers:

[2kemon]

...perhaps I just assumed the alter was higher than the benches, due to traditional churches?

But, then I think it would be cool to se a view from inside the chapel and towards the cross standing in water. How much of nature would you see and such? Or are the surroundings just meant to be present in your conscience? Or perhaps through the holes on the side?

Hope you'l forgive if I have misunderstood a few thing about your design? :o

[Brian T]

Richard,

excellent project. The simple fact that it has immense emotional and (I know you have atheistic leanings but this still applies) "spiritual" importance to you makes it an incredible significant piece of work. I can truly imagine sitting in the pews and seeing the sky reflected and the "projected" cross in that pool. It feels to me that pure cube form you've used truly reinforces the perceived purity of the religious experience. Great Work!!

[primocordara]

Hey Richard, first of all my best thoughts and a big hug for you, I had no idea of you were going through, or your personal life for that matter!!

Brought up as a Roman Catholic, I later became atheist basicaly due to the rejection of the Roman Catholic church's history. Later on I realize I still keep the esential belefs of religion, but just leave aside the "human organization"...

On comenting your project, I like the geometrics of it, just would coment that it seems a very "rigid" design for a specific ceremony or act, rather than a place for individuals to reflect or contemplate themselves...
(like all atention focused on "were the action is" ie the altar)

SUch a a wonderfull setting should allow for more a more open or flexible activities ... IMHO.

[ryarch]

I'll try to make 'em quick on such a broad topic:

1. Nice work. I like the concept, model and rendering. Very powerful topic and the design solution is equally powerful. The aspect that is most striking to me: You enter the 'church' and walk to your seat from what is traditionally the front, not the rear. That is a strong statement. The area behind the alter has been traditionally understood as reserved for the directors of the ceremony, and not the general public. Turning this area over to the public realm clarifies a message of 'diety as approachable without the direct assistance of someone else' (priest, pastor, etc.) The sacred space has been handed over. 400 years ago, in Catholocism, this area had a wall in front of it and you couldn't even see the priest. You have proposed the opposite. It suggests a very different relationship with a higher being.

2. I think that the base is a little strong and detracts from an otherwise very powerful design. Is it possible to minimize the base and let the sculptural pieces stand alone? More water and less base only strengthens the religious aspects of your design, i think. Water is a very common and symbolic religious feature. I hacked up your pic to express this thought. Please forgive the liberties that I took in doing that.

3. I respectfully wish you well , and strength in your personal life.

[ryarch]

The pic:

[spadestick]

I heard that heaven is in 3D, seven cities stacked on top of each other, without the influence of gravity.

How do you know for certainty that there is no God? have you searched every corner of the universe? Also how do you know that something is beautifully designed and something isn't? Where did this sense of beauty come from? our textbook teachings demonstrating our amoeba beginnings of a brain?

you have certainly ruffled some feathers my friend (have you seen how intricately designed and complex a bird's feather is?).

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more. tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality.

And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings.But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

[primocordara]

:D :D :D what are you on, mate?? my Lord, I think I am atheist again... :bang head

[imasayer]

Spadestick, this message is in poor taste, and Christians wonder why people hate them.... this kind of thing is what made me want to completely turn my back on God altogether.

Richard,

Thank you for sharing this with us. I found your exploration very touching. I have wanted to write something since I read this morning, but I haven't really found the words. I am sorry for your loss. Words just don't do justice...thank you, that's all.

[wizum]

Spadestick? which portions of the bible are you quoting? and how has Richard "ruffled" feathers? he stated what he believes... nothing wrong with that... I may not agree fundamentally with that but I repect him and his beliefs none-the-less... you have achieved nothing with the ramble of your quotes but turned people away from any good intentions you may of had...

I myself am a christain... I grew up in a christian family... my father is a Minister even... So, why I can understand your need to "shout from the mountain top" spadestick, I think you have chosen an inappropriate time and situation to do so...

richard, I am sorry to hear of your recent loss... It isn't easy I know... My father, who I just mentioned above, was just diagnosed with MS... though medicine will help and the MS will not necessarily end his life short, it causes you to think of things like life and death and how fragile it all is... Being a christain I feel I have something to hold onto and to turn to but I don't understand, as an aethiest how you learn to cope? I am not picking a fight but asking an honest question...

As for the work you have provided... it seems that you have developed and worked on such a design to help youself in a healing process over the losses you have recently had... At first I was a bit confused by the orientation of the viewer within the space but figured it out over the process of this discussion... Seems very clear you started with the pureness of Ando's chapel designs and departed from there to create your church... This process reminds me of while in school we would choose a house designed by a "famous" architect and study it and then take the ideas behind it and transform them from ideas that would either further reinforce the original intent of the design or off of a new scheme found from our original analysis... it was an effect way in learning design and building on what other masters have done...

If I am wrong in that, the Ando connection, forgive me :) but I think it is pretty apparent... I have nothing of a real critique to add to the work... its an interesting excercise and design...

regards,

[wizum]

by the way, Richard, do you have anyother view of the model rendered out to share? I would like to see more...

[primocordara]

I was just wondering if the cross could be removed altogether, thereby eliminating all reference to chiristianism.
Remember the fish was the early symbol for the christians, symbolizing life rather than pain and death as the crusifix does.

As to spadestix, undoubtedly the moment the Roman Emperor became cristian, the first 300 years of hummility became imperial strength and ambitions, the sword as christian symbol for the crusaders, etc etc... (funny the reference to your nickname!)

Just see what Spain became after the Cristian kings took power and eliminated all other religions that had coexisted peacefully for 1000 years under the moorish reign...

[page]

Richard,

Thank you for sharing. I think all who look at this design and read your story are touched by both. Thats quite an expression.

That being said I would have the following comments. I find the rectangular windows( cutouts ) to be a distratcion to the purity expresed elsewhere in the design. And agree with Ryarch in theroy that a more unified ground plane would enhance the reading of the ground plane elevating to become the seating. Think freestanding stadium seats that seem to float above the ground. In your case water.

Very thoughtful.
This seems like wonderful place of reflective thought, remembrance and gazing forward.
Please excuse the hackned PS mod to express my thought

[ReD]

I can't wait for time travel to come along so we can rewrite the bible & put it in its proper historical context. Meanwhile we still have to rely on our inaccurate & piecemeal translations & misinterpretations. I feel very sad when I see intellect wasted & wars waged over misguided & mistaken beliefs.

Richard .. I feel for you and trust you cherish everything & everyone around you. Work hard.

[MICHEL]

I heard that heaven is in 3D, seven cities stacked on top of each other, without the influence of gravity.

How do you know for certainty that there is no God? have you searched every corner of the universe? Also how do you know that something is beautifully designed and something isn't? Where did this sense of beauty come from? our textbook teachings demonstrating our amoeba beginnings of a brain?

you have certainly ruffled some feathers my friend (have you seen how intricately designed and complex a bird's feather is?).

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more. tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality.

And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings.But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Puuuuuuulssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaase Spacestick...
Don't make this thread look like the "religious" thread on the @last forum. That Cornel guy just made me SICK.
You believe in GOD, I believe in MANKIND. Up to you... Please, don't sell us your beliefs...Sorry for being a little "harsh" but that's the way I react when people call me "animal". I doubt this discussion is going to leed us anywhere interessting. Quit it. Thanks.

[franjayo]

Richard,

If this forum is about sharing, this is going to be tough to beat. Your image evokes many feeling and it obviously works effectively as a way to express and let out your heartfelt humanity and sincerity. I only hope one percent of self-claimed religious persons could be as real and human, the world would be much better for it.

Thank you for sharing your best. We are here, thanks to you, feeling these profound questions that we all have to ask every once in a while. We are here.

[spadestick]

sorry guys, thsese aren't my thoughts...

just quoting directly from the Bible. It is really as is stated, 100% - I'm an animal!

Anyway, I like Richard's design, as with all his designs. Well thought out, very spatially rich and powerful.

I honestly don't want to turn this into religious thread. Just quoting before another religious nut comes in and turns it into one - reverse psychology 101, get it out there before it happens.

[BruceWalker]

I must say I think your design is excellent. Simple, yet powerful.

It wouldn't really serve well as a church as such, but as a tourist chapel (such as the exemplars of Ando etc that you said inspired you) it is brilliant - and I mean that sincerely.

Your skill in design, modelling and rendering (including your other posts) are truly to be envied. :clap:

My sympathies for your loss.

-----------------

Now in response to the thread in general and not necessarily to you, Richard:

I'm always interested for atheists to tell me about this God that they don't believe in :)

i didn´t identified with the attitude of "this is only true way".

Truth, by definition, is exclusive. You can't have two versions of truth - no matter what you're talking about.

I'm quite happy for people to be atheists, agnostics, whatever - I just hope and pray they discover the truth before it's too late.

Religion is not the same as Christianity.

Cheers.

[Richard]

Thank you all!

Firstly, I have had some years (5) since the death of my partner but a recent aniversary of that and then the Church of Light thread inspired my thoughts expressed here. I can see from what I wrote initially it may have been seen as more recent, my most sincere apologies. Admittedly the reminder that it was came rather as a shock, just as every year (day) has!

This has always been a reminder of a possibly wrongly chosen path. I was left to my own determination of what is right or wrong. Generally I've chosen well my morals and have needed not script or teachings to acquire them and they are certainly different to my parents in most ways I can see.

Why I say I MAY have chosen the wrong path, and possibly the only reason is that to me it seems so much easier! (Well as long as I was allowed the self indulgences I allow myself now that are at no cost to others!) I'm unfortunately now not able to change my thinking!

What I'm suggesting these losses have done is to see reinforced my own belief in why such common thinking exists as it can be based on passed experience. I do not challenge anyone elses beliefs as a result though, well I guess in part to look at it critically I am, I'll shut up now!!!!

With regards to the design:

As I suggested, context really was not a consideration as the structure was not considered in any, just later placed for a render play.

The second image aims to convey the structure more clearly, although on the right the elevation of the podium is evident. I originally had the structure set in a park but then trees, etc - grrr! So the watery surrounds came in.

I will play with this current setting and see how I can better develop the interaction. I certainly wasn't happy with the podium or plinth so I'll look forward to this.

I know what several are saying about the cutouts, they weren't there originally but I wanted to permit viewing in and out. I'll play with some thoughts there.

I'm happy with the placement of the water born cross but might play with the weight of the projected one (topmost).

As Michel and others acknowledge the main thought was to reverse the skyward focus of the currently common model and view down upon the symbol of these beliefs in strong context. This is because I think it is a more modern thinking to which the church should be encouraged and I have to agree with Michel in that I'm so opposed to the common model.

I didn't want to spark debate on religion just give some reasoning behind my thoughts toward this structure.

I'll scope everyones comments and see how I can consolidate it a bit and generate some other images. Mindful though I didn't want to persist much past expressing my initial thoughts and how I may reflect them.

Cheers again to all and thank you for your well wishes, everyone adds warmth truly and more so from friends!

Richard

[primocordara]

just in case you haven't seen it, here is an old post of mine... New places of worship (http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=813)

[GinSoakedBoy]

Truth, by definition, is exclusive. You can't have two versions of truth - no matter what you're talking about.

That thought in religion has led to wars. why? because every religions thinks it's the holder of the truth, and then things get so twisted that the followers end up the exact oposite of what the religion ment.

i belive that there's only one truth, we just don´t have the capacity/ability to fully understand it, so we have perceptions of the truth, and that changes from people to peole. Religious institutions, like the roman catholic, were made by there fore they only hold some perceptions of the truth, mixed up, that give a wider perception of the truth, still not the truth. When any institution, or religion for that matter, comes and say that their way is "the only true way", i tend to walk away from it, specially when there group pression for you to act a certain way, and then you see the hypocrisy that exists in the group.


I'm quite happy for people to be atheists, agnostics, whatever - I just hope and pray they discover the truth before it's too late.

So for you what is the truth?


Religion is not the same as Christianity.


I couldn´t agree more, that's why i just walked away from the group and keept having the morals based in christianism. =)

[primocordara]

I like the implications of this controversial sclupture, made by León Ferrari in the 60's during the Vietnam war... scares me to see it is still representative nowdays!

[wizum]

That thought in religion has led to wars. why? because every religions thinks it's the holder of the truth, and then things get so twisted that the followers end up the exact oposite of what the religion ment.

i belive that there's only one truth, we just don´t have the capacity/ability to fully understand it, so we have perceptions of the truth, and that changes from people to peole. Religious institutions, like the roman catholic, were made by there fore they only hold some perceptions of the truth, mixed up, that give a wider perception of the truth, still not the truth. When any institution, or religion for that matter, comes and say that their way is "the only true way", i tend to walk away from it, specially when there group pression for you to act a certain way, and then you see the hypocrisy that exists in the group.

So for you what is the truth?



Of course it was going to happen :) but we are all slowly stealing Richards thread... Religion is a topic that of course becomes very sensitive to us all... it defines who we are and how we percieve ourselves in this world we live in... its fundamental to our existence and how we see it... But all of our religions, whether we are aetheist, agnostic, christain, muslim, etc. are based on a system of FAITH (the key word in this discussion)... none of us know for a 100% certainty we are right... so we should all be careful in how we are defining religion here... because that term is very broad... after all the English defenition of Religion is in short "A system of belief"... it doesn't say that the Catholic Church is a religion... its the beliefs of the Church that are the religion... the Catholic Church is man's invention for an institution to foster its own belief system... anyhow...

This has been a very inlightening thread and I am very glad that Richard had the courage to post it... I am sure he knew of some of the things he would stir up... and actually I think, for the most part, everyone has been respectful discussing Richard's work and on his beliefs regard this topic...

and Primo, a disturbing image you have posted... WOW... but it is sad... its the lack of respect that the Extremes of the different beliefs, "religions, have toward one another that create such controversy and in turn wars...

[primocordara]

I know wizum, dunno if I did the correct thing, but it goes in line with what I said about the symbols of cristianism...

BTW:The church of light uses the greek cross?? (the one with equal sides)

[danbush]

I actually think the base should have a thinner edge and have quite a deep recess below it to reinforce the sense that this plinth is floating on the water - hovering over it as the spirit did in genesis 1?

Also, the windows do look out of place and the rigidity of the box makes me want to splay the side walls out a bit to create a widening out toward the bottom.

I got on a chapel kick several years ago ( pre computer ) and designed like 4 or 5 in a row in my sketchbook - never had the time to move them over to sketchup though...

[BruceWalker]

BTW:The church of light uses the greek cross?? (the one with equal sides)

Is that also the Knights Templar cross?...or does that splay out at the edges as well?

[primocordara]

It is the Greek cross...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_cross

[BruceWalker]

Yes. The Knights Templar one is similar.

http://www.crystalinks.com/templars.html

[Juan Gomez-Velez]

Richard

I've been out of touch lately, mostly due to a great amount of footwork at the office as well as an unreliable access to the net at home. I saw your post with enormous interest. You are a masterful designer as well as an incredible modeler; I've expressed my admiration to you many times in the past yet I feel this is truly extraordinary, this is an institutional design, a sculpture, a place for reflection and introspection, a SPACE to be experienced. The way you have juggled with traditional aspects of church or chapel design is striking, original and effective. Your sightlines and your access progression turn things around and make this particular place unique. I find it to be a powerful reflection of a state of mind, and a strong expression of your spirit.

I'm a religious person in a way, but essentially I'm a man of faith. In all those ways that are important, so are you, if we define Faith as opposed to distrust and despair, spite and remorse.

Some comments and some questions

The cross atop the seating area is interesting as it casts a shadow that weaves its way along the day across the entire enclosure. Could it have been something more elaborate? Say a single six, eight or sixteen point star, as in many mid eastern, Byzantine or Islamic ornament, something like the framework of a stained glass window. The shadow would have been more complex, and its true shape harder to match with the frame that projects it. The effect would have been that of cueing this setting a place of reflection, without religion, similar to that of other nondenominational chapels in institutional settings, yours of course being a radically different proposal

The idea of beholding the reflection of the sky and of ourselves as we look upon the pool is striking. Are we willing to look upon ourselves as we seem so willing to set our eyes upon the unknown and unfathomable? As we do so, do we feel at peace? You have provided a challenging framework for introspection and silence, no one has to speak to us, there are no officiates, we are called to look upon and listen to ourselves, a formidable challenge. Our world, in all its terrible beauty is our setting. You have made it suffice.

The proportions, the openings, the finishes and the scale are balanced, expressive, stark and clean.

The cross is an icon of hope through pain, a reminder that all good is challenged and seemingly defeated. In your project it is neither standing up nor lying down. Perhaps we are called upon to do one or the other, set up an instrument of pain or let it down as an affirmation of hope. Pain is something tangible framed in time and as real as our bodies, our minds and our feelings, hope is intangible, unframed by time and as real as our spirits, our aspirations and our souls, whatever these words may mean to us.

I congratulate you and commend you on a work of art, and of architecture, where you have set yourself as your client and brought to bear your passion and your incredibly high standards of excellence.

A privilege

Saludos

Juan

[realrich82]

Great Job Richard

Very good comment and suggestions Juan-Gomez...
Straight to the point.


I think many simple thing can be elaborated on your design, although you use the basic material like in the church of light but I think the general form is very monumental, I don't know how you feel about this church, but subjectively I can feel that your church speak very loud to the surrounding, so monumental, .. Is that image you want to people feel? It is different from the general approach of the church that usually the concept of the building is to bow down, and basic form of the architecture doesn't speak too much.

Beside all of that, I like your design man, but I am obvious about your design process, it would be nice if you can five us some design process sketch.

Great!

[sandropc]

Thank you Richard to share your excellent work, part of your life and your thoughts. If people that profess some religion were as you are, the world would be different, likely with most justice…

The architectural object in question, call we a temple, chapel or simply a meditation place, goals its objectives, the work is solid, sculptural, harmonic and pleasant at sight. The presentation is excellent; I believe that this work is among the best design that you have allready done, that is not a little! It is an honor to be able to appreciate your work and thoughts… :cheers:

I want to share a poem written by our biggest poet, Rubén Dario (1867-1916), I think that it is good for this Thread, it is call “Lo Fatal”

"LO FATAL"/"WHAT GETS YOU"
How fortunate the tree that is scarcely aware,
and more so the hard stone because it no longer feels,
since there is no greater pain than the pain of living,
nor deeper sorrow than conscious life.
Being, and knowing nothing, and being without a true course,
and the fear of having been, and a future terror...
And the certain dread of being dead tomorrow,
and suffering because of life, and because of shadow, and because of
what we don't know and scarcely suspect,
and the flesh that tempts with its fresh-picked bunches,
and the tomb that awaits with its funeral bouquets,
and not knowing where we are going,
nor from where we have come....!

The original poem (for the hispanoparlantes):

LO FATAL

Dichoso el árbol que es apenas sensitivo,
y más la piedra dura, porque ésa ya no siente,
pues no hay dolor más grande que el dolor de ser vivo,
ni mayor pesadumbre que la vida consciente.

Ser, y no saber nada, y ser sin rumbo cierto,
y el temor de haber sido y un futuro terror…
Y el espanto seguro de estar mañana muerto,
y sufrir por la vida y por la sombra y por

lo que no conocemos y apenas sospechamos,
y la carne que tienta con sus frescos racimos,
y la tumba que aguarda con sus fúnebres ramos,
¡y no saber adónde vamos,
ni de dónde venimos!…

[Rick Nelson]

Richard -

This is one of the most inspirational design concepts for a place of worship (although, Richard Meier's Chapel in Rome is spectacular). Well done.

Good luck on your personal journey as well.

[lavardera]

This is a beautiful chapel Richard. I want to make some observations on the configuration of the seating and see if considering some alternative readings of the meaning it may hold or project would influence your design based on your own beliefs.

The configuration of the seating in your design is very traditional. Although the floor slopes steeply and raises the seats which perhaps is not traditional per-say, the seating configuration with altar and worship leader at the "front" and worshipers lined up facing them in the body of the chapel is a classical precedent. Some years ago I worked for an architect for who churches were a large part of his practice. We designed several new churches and renovated many others while I was there. He used to refer to this kind of seating configuration as the "747 scheme" because the priest was upfront like the pilot, and the congregation was in the seats like the passengers. On one level this was true, as the worship leader is leading the ritual, but on another level it sends a deeper message, that the worship leader is the sole conduit to God and that the congregation relies on them to maintain their relationship to God. We all know that some major organized religions have built their power by interposing themselves in this way, and I don't want to debate the merits of that assertion, but simply recognize that the seating arrangement can be seen as representative of this at least as an attitude. If you look further back to orthodox worship practices you would find that much of the activity of the ritual went on behind a screen seperating the congregation from the ritual, with the worship leaders even facing the altar, their backs to the people. Its been distilled from there - in most cases the worship leaders face the people today. But many religions have consciously moved away from this seating style in order alter the impression of this relationship, at least in policy if not always in action. There are many more old churches than new which have the traditional arrangement. Some cultures still want the traditional arrangement, for others who are conservative they wish this arrangement, so it still proliferates.

But today you see a movement in some places towards seating arrangements that are oriented more towards expressing the gathering of people, and that God is among you when you gather. You see churches with opposed seating or seating in the round where the altar and worship leader is brought into the center of the congregation rather than at the front - think of a representation of the last supper. There are some faiths that have always had a more level playing field at the core of their beliefs, and the forms and traditions of their worship places have developed around that. Think of the Quakers here in the US and the Quaker Meeting Hall.

But the traditional seating form is still more widespread, and I must say that it is easier to create dramatic settings when you use it, as it will always take along all the familiar cultural meaning with it.

But I have to wonder, with your beliefs, as an individual taking an individual view of faith and spirituality, I wonder if there would not be an expression in form that more closely aligned to your own beliefs and the way you have chosen to lead your own life?

[tadao]

good jod! i like tadao !i like your style! very very good ! but what do you think about Composition ! i afraid
ok that good idea

[primocordara]

Tadao, Tadao, always a chalenge to interpret...