Modernizing a 15 year old house [Archive]

primocordara

22-04-2006, 01:03

Assignment: To design an adition to this beach house and in the process, striping it of mouldings and classical colums, to bring it up to date.

I am just starting, but would like some feedback from you guys, since the house has a strong image and would apreciate ideas for it...

Here a picture of the house. Notice the horrible beach club behind it. This is part of a development with severeal simmilar houses.
Now most of the new ones are built in more modern simple lines, and the club is being demolished to allow sea views, and will be replaced by a "designer" building...

primocordara

22-04-2006, 01:04

a closer view of the house. these balcony mouldings over the door are to be removed too.

primocordara

22-04-2006, 01:10

Here a view of the "new neighbours" to give you an idea of what I mean...

at the back you see some older examples of "neo mediterranean" pastiches...

primocordara

22-04-2006, 01:25

here a closer view...

primocordara

22-04-2006, 01:26

and another...

sandropc

22-04-2006, 05:42

Primo:

I think that the house, wich it not modern or contemporary, has its own character. Mi propossal is to preserve the shape and to add some elements of modernity with your personal touch.

Un saludo cordial Che...

SWANK-E

22-04-2006, 06:17

got a sketchup model of the existing conditions of the house? (or general massing?)

cacapis

22-04-2006, 06:34

got a sketchup model of the existing conditions of the house? (or general massing?)
You mean existing conditions of the layout right?

It would also be very interesting to know what kind of modifications do you have to do to the house.
The starting point is not that bad. The masonry looks really good and I think you'll be able to do something really cool. The neighbours don't look bad at all!!
Also where is it located?

primocordara

22-04-2006, 11:49

thanks sandro, I think that would be my aproach, i cannot change the house completely of course, but by striping it of exterior "pastice aditions" I get a simple volume to add something else.

Here a very skematic model of the house as it is now.

Caca, I need to enlarge the kitchen and add a maids room and laundry, this in the main volume. Then there would me an adition with a swiming pool, guest bedroom and a barbecue...

The neighbours are not bad, in fact this is in Jose Ignacio, to the east of Punta del Este. The last trend by rich Argentininas is to buid "designer" houses, Matias Klotz is about to build a big residence here...

primocordara

22-04-2006, 12:37

a view of the model...

franjayo

22-04-2006, 14:43

GinSoakedBoy

22-04-2006, 19:17

Hey primo
i took the liberty of playing a bit with your model just to "modernize" everything a bit... I didn´t add much detailing to it, it was just to give the idea...

here is the skp

GinSoakedBoy

22-04-2006, 19:20

i didn´t knew were to grow with the house so that part it's still in the open...
Anyway this was just for fun only. :)

primocordara

22-04-2006, 21:47

muito Obrigado Ginsoakedboy!
Here is one option I was working on...
The pitched roofs I think give the house some character and make great interiors, so I striped the house to its basic geometrics, and extended the lowest volumes for the new rooms.
I also added a new trelis were the family hangs out, that is to the iner yard...

primocordara

22-04-2006, 21:49

here a view from the backyard...
in this option I am leaving the pool and guest rooms out ...

primocordara

22-04-2006, 22:02

here my first scheme, with the new guest bedroom and pool.
I think I should marry the two schemes...

primocordara

22-04-2006, 22:03

here a view of the courtyard

cacapis

22-04-2006, 22:42

Mhhh, I would be careful of using brickwork for the addition. It won't have the same color as the original construction and therefore it will look like it's an addition even though it's trying to blend in. Probably a more interesting aproach is to do an addition by contrast of languages. I would think of glass and a simple geometric design, but it's just my oppinion. Ginsoakedboy's proposal looks interesting.
Also I'm not a fan of 45° angles. It's a recurrent for houses of the original style of that house and reminds me too much of that type of architecture. Sort of Wright meets Kahn latin american McMansion. Anyways this is just a personal oppinion.

primocordara

23-04-2006, 00:33

No problem with brickwork, its done localy with the clay obtained there, and the builder worked originaly in this house...

I like the first one too.

franjayo

23-04-2006, 01:22

Do you have a plan that shows the interior? I would analyze that first. I like the ideas of enclosing the back patio making it part of the house space and keeping the roofs.

primocordara

23-04-2006, 01:36

Thank you franyayo, here is the interior as it is now.
One of the problems to address first is a maids room and separate kitchen, now it is an open one at the other side of the living room.

primocordara

23-04-2006, 01:39

In scheme 14-15, the new maids room and kitchen are placed were the barbecue is, conected to the house by a closed alley. A door would conect this to the bedroom corridor avoiding the living room.
The kitchen becomes part of the living room, for the future conection of the expansion.

danbush

23-04-2006, 02:13

primo:

Personally, the idea of leaving the 'classical' columns does not bother me as they appear to be of a good proportion ...

As far as the house goes, it seems to have some basic character to it that could be carried into the new portions - the porch roof elements for example.

If wind is of concern in the area as it is at our local beach (the gulf of mexico), can this new addition provide some screening and protection to the new outdoor areas?

primocordara

23-04-2006, 02:23

their main concern is the maids room and closed "formal" kitchen and laundry. As second stage, a guest bedroom, a barbecue/ fammily room, and a swiming pool.
Yes, the new adition provides more screening, that is what my second cheme acheives...

danbush

23-04-2006, 04:38

Could the guest suite be in a seperate structure which forms a courtyard around the pool and frames a view toward the water?

franjayo

23-04-2006, 11:46

Very interesting how the maid issue is dominant and is decentralizing the layout. The layout on purpose separates the working area ( kitchen and laundry) closer to the maid's room and farther from the owner's living space.

I guess you need to get into a frame of mind that you would not go and get a glass of water in the fridge by yourself, so it does not matter that the kitchen is placed at the very end of the house.

This is creating a long connecting corridor and an extension that could almost be independent. Does the corridor to the maid area need to be enclosed? Can it be just a roofed part of the back terrace? Looks like you are stretching to connnect to an area that you are in effect separating.

primocordara

23-04-2006, 11:57

Yes francisco, it brings to mind the discusion thread about the kitchen (http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2931&highlight=slaughterhouse)!
The maid must be able to work, go to the rooms, supervise the babies when the parents are out, have her meals, watch TV on her free time, sleep while there is a party at night!

So yes, you need a separate service sector, and you need to go from this sector to the rooms withought pasing through the living room!

This corridor MUST be enclosed for climate reasons, (wind is strong here from of the Ocean, and the Antartic currents even bring penguins and whales to the beach some times of the year!) and she has to care for the children when the parents are out at night...

BTW, you can also go from the bedrooms to the kitchen for a glass of water withought pasing througn the living room with this new scheme!

primocordara

24-04-2006, 12:52

Just to show you were I'm at, after a very productive conversation with Kevin :not worth
I am still not happy with proportions, and hate the 4 sided roof of the tall volume :bang head but I got to keep it real, if I make new walls and roof, I might as well demolish the house!

By thickening the walls and making deep windows, I make a gutter to receive rainwater from the roof, and the volumes become more clear..

Please remember this is still pre design level... I guess there is too much going on, I must now make it more simple...

primocordara

24-04-2006, 13:30

Another view. Still not happy with proportions, bit it is an improvement, what do you think?

primocordara

24-04-2006, 13:43

It is an excellent house, I would be careful of changing it in a way that could make it worse. As an immediate impression I would try something that does not even touch it, or something that separates it from the new.

Do you have the original plans and history of this house? It would be my priority to undrestand how it came to be.

I agree that the entrance portico is not good, it looks like a later addition. I do not like the arches or the way the end against the house. I would tear it down all, not just the balcony.
This house has no "history" at all! built as part of the development 15 years ago, there are some simmilar houses done together with the beach club in this sort of "neo- beach cottage style" (watever that is!). The new houses built thereafter are in general better designed...

SWANK-E

24-04-2006, 14:03

Just to show you were I'm at, after a very productive conversation with Kevin :not worth

this was from our conversations...

my suggestion with dealing with that rather ugly roof is to hide it with a new lightweight facade, and by doing that, you can provide shade to the thermal mass (just like a reversed brick veneer) and reap the energy saving benefits. It also provides opportunity to play with a 'thick' wall that can be occupied and or "sculpted" to provide diffused light (ala ronchamp)

here is an image from our discussion yesterday.

GinSoakedBoy

24-04-2006, 14:11

hmm... i think that it wouldn´t be that hard to lose the 4 side roof, and replace it with a flat roof, but i guess it would be something to discuss with the enginer. The walls... you could use the existent, but just give them a diferent treatment to them, in the solution that i put here it was supposed to be white plaster or something like that.

I agree with you when you say that the proportions could be better. Personally i don´t like the roofs...
Here in Portugal there's alot of debate about slopped roofs and flat roofs, in this case i really don´t like them, don´t get me wrong i think that there are great projects with sloped roofs and when well handled they can produce great images... not the case thought...

I like your idea to simplify everything. :)

Wow Kevin great idea =)
really clean and really beautyfull, could post more images of it?

primocordara

24-04-2006, 14:17

Sorry Kevin, I should have posted your image first, I experimented the "other way round" adding a wall to the lower volume.

Marr

24-04-2006, 14:29

I think Kevin is really on to something by concealing the pyramid roof with the new facade.
IMO there are 2 ways you could deal with this. One would be to leave the house pretty much as it looks today (whether it is beautiful or not) and add an extension that is clearly an addition. Some of the others have already suggested this. The other way is to be drastic and truly modernize it, in other words pretty much erase all signs of the fake historical look.
I think your latest sketches are a little bit too much in between those two methods. Just my 2 Krónur :cheers:

SWANK-E

24-04-2006, 15:24

could post more images of it?

it's really nothing, just a quick play around, especially just one corner and the main volume as a way to illustrate the idea of the secondary skin and the potentials during our skype session

here is another image and this aspect hasn't really been worked on yet.
(note you can see through from the more vertical window the ronchamp effect for the other window on the other facade)

jparchitectus

24-04-2006, 15:36

I am into Kevins idea as well. Adding almost a "stagefront" to the existing masses to then take an erode from isn't a bad concept.

Another approach (affordable) could be to eliminate all window and door casing. Eliminaate all classical references. Treat the openings as cutouts and stucco the entire place. I don't think the existing forms are that aweful. There are some interesting scales of openings and masses. I like the idea of potentially exagerating them further. I would then probably bold it up with some colors (probably a shocker for cesar :P )

hinterhaus

24-04-2006, 16:10

do the clients want a 'designer' house or do they want to preserve the existing style?
what about budget? are the clients expecting radical changes?

primocordara

24-04-2006, 17:26

Well this thread has proven invaluable for me! No doubt, Kevin's scheme is clearer and concise, I will explore on that direction now and see were it goes...

hinterhaus, the client is a young couple open to new ideas. They don't like the clasical colums, the balconies and arches of the entrance, (in fact they asked me to remove them!) and like the more simple geometries of new houses nearby.
They don't whant a "trendy" or "designer" house specificaly, but simple geometries, and a vacation, beach front feel... (watever that is)

I mean, there is a house being designed by Matias Klotz nearby, gossip says with expensive copper handrails (the owner does not ¡wwhant to pay for them) for example, this would be a "designer house"... this is not a project to go that way...

They have needs to address, like maids room and bigger independent kitchen (this is urgent) and a second stage of pool, guest suite and barbecue...

I know I can't spend all the money covering the existing house, but I think it is worth trying if the results are good.

Mates, I thank you all very much!

cacapis

24-04-2006, 18:27

I like the way it's going now much better than the original proposal. Probably the clients will like it too.
Here is a quick sketch of what I discussed whith the pillow last night (it's a really wise pillow you know).
It's just a design concept, but maybe it helps you with some idea.

cacapis

24-04-2006, 18:28

from the other side

hinterhaus

24-04-2006, 20:36

this is of course quite different but may be inspiration too.
it shows a modernised traditional sala house on the island formentera. (spain - baleares)
the house and the guest rooms in a converted former animal shelter
enclose a patio in the back. (of which i couldn't take a picture).
the addition (white cube with terrace on top and sala type tower) face north towards a spectacular view.
the terrace roof position allows to enjoy the view and watch the sunsets in the west.

imasayer

24-04-2006, 21:15

I don't think completely changing the look of the house is necessary or practical. I think your first schemes were closer to on track primo. I would say contrast the traditional with the modern, create a dialog and a tension with the two. I would encourage you to make your changes more subtle, and not use such a heavy hand. There is no reason to completely destroy the character of the house, just get rid of the cheesy historical reference. To me this is a much more interesting solution.

franjayo

24-04-2006, 23:12

Primo,

By history that should be considered, I meant that probably an architect designed this house 15 years ago, I suppose you have the plans and know who was the designer.

As per design, the entrance portico is the only thing I find poorly designed, the rest is not that bad. The overall design is clean probably intended to blend in, not as a sculptural piece of design. Both you and the owners may not like the style, and in that case I would seriously consider demolishing it completely. Start over with a new design instead of making the type of patch-up's suggested.

This house brings back a problem I have stated before:

Can you do a modern or contemporary design with a slanted roof or a tile roof?

You should be able to.

primocordara

24-04-2006, 23:22

You stated things very clearly Franjayo. It is dificult to intervene on a coleague's design.
This is a pre design discusion on exploring "posibilities", based on the impresion the house needs some changes, the owners say the dont like the colums and entrance portico, and balustrade balconies, and need an important extension...

I beleive modern can have a slanted roof of course.

Thank you for your opinions mate!

franjayo

25-04-2006, 03:57

Maybe some inspiration in vernacular "sabana" houses of Salmona.

http://www.villegaseditores.com/loslibros/9589393578/

franjayo

25-04-2006, 04:05

The Falla house by Eugenio Batista, Habana 1939.

http://www.arkitekturnet.dk/anmeldelser/0008lhnmt.htm

franjayo

25-04-2006, 05:11

Font house by Mario Romañach, Habana 1956, with the inward slanted roofs.

reference:

http://metropolismag.com/html/content_0204/rom/

franjayo

25-04-2006, 05:17

Bestard house by Gomez-Sampera & Dominguez, 1959 Habana. Large single slanted roof, they called it the wing.

primocordara

25-04-2006, 16:07

Maybe some inspiration in vernacular "sabana" houses of Salmona.

http://www.villegaseditores.com/loslibros/9589393578/

BTW I used "Torres del Parque" (http://www.villegaseditores.com/loslibros/9589393578/torres_txt.html)as a reference for 4th year project at the univ.!:rock on:
Saw him in a lecture were he presented "Casa del Fuerte" (http://www.villegaseditores.com/loslibros/9589393578/manzanillo_txt.html#) in the Buenos Aires Architecture Bienal too!

hinterhaus

02-05-2006, 20:21

primo, could you post what you suggested to the client?
i'm quite curious how this will develop. i've played around with your model (and the large single slanted roof) trying to add a maids room, a laundry and a guest room, move the kitchen and retain the barbecue. :wondering

jparchitectus

02-05-2006, 20:24

I really like the way this thread has progressed in a tru pre-design discussion format.

primocordara

02-05-2006, 20:31

Ok, I am still moving things arround for a presentation this week, will post soon and let you know what the client said! Thank you all guys!

cacapis

03-05-2006, 02:15

Cool. The best of lucks to you, I know how those beach town clients can get. Keep us posted with the presentation and the oppinions they give you!

primocordara

05-05-2006, 19:50

Well, i met with the clients today, so I will show you first what I presented them and let you know how things are going..

After talking previously with them to define their requests, I decided to keep the main structure as pure and as unaltered as possible, just simplifying its geometry.
To this I added a geometric pergola and deck semi-traslucent, so as to provide a more subtle exterior shelter .

The first option has a new corridor with the maids room and kitchen, and transforms the exsiting kitchen into a living room, by extending it sideways...

primocordara

05-05-2006, 19:59

the second option contemplates a biger adition as a guest house.
The kitchen remains in its place and is enlarged, and a maids room is added next to it.

I presented this option because they had liked it very much the first time, and they still do, so
I think I must now work on designing this new adition, perhaps making it different from the existing house...

navin_11

04-09-2007, 16:42

One thing that fascinated me., first thing., was... the contemporary buildings were providing the context for this 're-design'...usually its the otherway round, isnt it?

jenujacob

04-09-2007, 18:04

i really didnt get the drift of what u were tryin to say there navin ;)
Thanx for resurrecting this lil thread!
I would like to see what became of this design almost after a year! :D

primocordara

04-09-2007, 18:51

Thanks for your interest.
Here a couple of pics of the final days of construction.
Mind you, I replaced the wooden stripes of the balcony, since they were too separate and not well executed!:bang head
Oh! and the window panes were replaced by big ones with no divisions!

primocordara

04-09-2007, 18:52

Another view.

This has been a smaller addition to what you saw in the proyects, perhaps the swimming pool and guest house are build for this summer...

primocordara

04-09-2007, 19:05

here a view of the facade...

spadestick

04-09-2007, 19:39

i think the house looks rather charming. To me, all it needs is a good coat of stucco and paint, and focus on the interiors - making inside highly contemporary. Most clients are willing to spend on interiors more than the exterior. Think glass wall partitions and concrete floors, with surfaces of travertine as countertops. Frameless windows, corten steel doors. Whilst renewing the roof, think slit skylights.

spadestick

04-09-2007, 19:45

http://www.fischer-naumann.de/mitte/projekte/swe/projekt1.html

Something like this

navin_11

04-09-2007, 20:37

i really didnt get the drift of what u were tryin to say there navin ;)
Thanx for resurrecting this lil thread!
I would like to see what became of this design almost after a year! :D

its usually the older buildings that provide "context" to a certain design., in this case., its the reverse...

navin_11

04-09-2007, 20:40

i wonder why "modernize"ing something, is percieved as using the language of 'cubes'., or cubist architecture.,
the facelift in this case has been an attempt to 'cubify' the existing house.

spadestick

05-09-2007, 01:06

we don't want to get into another theory debate shall we? All I think is that here, such form suits the context. I can't imagine a curved roof, canting wall and odd shaped shards sticking into this project would do the surroundings any justice, nor serve the existing structure in a complementary way.

primocordara

05-09-2007, 02:25

i wonder why "modernize"ing something, is percieved as using the language of 'cubes'., or cubist architecture.,
the facelift in this case has been an attempt to 'cubify' the existing house.

well, yes, its actualy an atempt to remove the more cheesy elements of the original design, like doric colums and entry arch...

I agree the weirdness of readapting a building to new surroundings...